now i know that for highly modified engines it is worth getting your car tuned and set for e85 especially for the track. however anyone know what needs to be done how much it would cost and peoples opinions for a stock car.
i think it would give a great performance boost better than 98RON and also be cheaper to run.
i have seen a few ways to do the conversion the best and proper way being bigger injectors, better fuel pump, metal fuel filter and a retune. also have seen a few other ways involving just one of the above being changed and from what i can tell tit is not as benificial and can only be done on a car with a knock sensor. also there is conversion kits avaliable which i am not quite sure what they do but from my understanding are mostly a piggyback ECU.

all rubber lines and seals need to be checked and replaced. Ethanol eats rubber that isnt suitable for high ethanol content fuel

what i find ard to understand is that if ethanol eats rubber and stuff how is it possible that companies are producing kits that allow your car to run on e85 that just reprogram the ecu and injectors? how are these companies getting these items approved? surely they would be dangeous? i have seen how holden have made modificationss to the VE fuel system for e85.
personally i think it would be worth it. could be done for ~$2500 mayb less performance better than 98RON and cheaper sounds like the best option to me. e85 will be more readilay avaliable in the next couple of years anyways.

Where are these kits you speak of?

The other issue is getting the fuel for your car. Yes car will run cooler and will go through a tank quicker and if it has been tuned for E85 you need to fine a E85 Servo every 3-400kms.. I only know of two in Sydney and thats why my car is still on 98ron.

Other thing is it is cheaper then 91 or 98 now but as it get more popular the price will sky rocket. Its already going up stupidly fast compared to normal fuel, getting to the stage that its not worth running other then for performance reasons.

stock car, the cheapest mod is nitrous, no ecu, can use98 or 95...... well make a differance, kits cost a pissy 500 bucks with some dyno time and installed your looking a 1500all up, bang for bucks it just cant be beaten, you'll be getting your 200 plus horse power, street credit, and saving you money... (money doesnt have to be rebuilt) as long as its a healthy engine, you'll have no worries

single wet fogger system, not a dry system

please trust me, you'll get power with a car tuned for e85, but its going to cost you more everytime you try to fill it up... and more in getting it installed..., nitrous you use when you want too, so i botle can last you a long arse time... and there alot more places that refill bottles then fuel stations that sell e85

stock car, the cheapest mod is nitrous, no ecu, can use98 or 95...... well make a differance, kits cost a pissy 500 bucks with some dyno time and installed your looking a 1500all up, bang for bucks it just cant be beaten, you'll be getting your 200 plus horse power, street credit, and saving you money... (money doesnt have to be rebuilt) as long as its a healthy engine, you'll have no worries

single wet fogger system, not a dry system

please trust me, you'll get power with a car tuned for e85, but its going to cost you more everytime you try to fill it up... and more in getting it installed..., nitrous you use when you want too, so i botle can last you a long arse time... and there alot more places that refill bottles then fuel stations that sell e85

Pretty sure its illegal to have a nitrous system connected for street use. Whereas an e85 system may well be legal

Pretty sure its illegal to have a nitrous system connected for street use. Whereas an e85 system may well be legal

When you turn on the nitrous you will probably be doing something illegal anyway . . . . . just keep it well hidden. lol

While there are available gains from using E85 there are also a lot of drawbacks.

Sure it is cheaper per litre at the moment but remember also you are going to use about 20-30% more fuel per km.
The set-up costs can be relatively large. Being upgrades to fuel system plus the tuning to get the gains.
Other extra costs come down the road a couple of years, these are replacing many fuel system components in a much shorter time frame than if running 98.
Then you may or may not find personal reasons to dislike it, I know a guy with a full-on Skyline GTR who put it on E85 and swore by it, gained about 50Kw @ wheels from memory. However after a while he reckons he hated the smell and fumes and decided to go back to 98 (at least that was the reason he gave me).

The biggest problems I can see are firstly the lack of consistent quality in E85 fuel, as it really can vary quite dramatically and to me is the biggest drawback, and it isn't well regulated either.
Secondly the lack of availability. I too only know of 2 servo's selling it, casula and I think out Penrith or something. Even if you get an ECU that runs dual maps (which Magna ECU's can likely do once someone works out how) that is still a pain in the butt.

I reckon the biggest benefit is to guys running highly stressed engines, like big boosted engines, as the E85 will actually help their engines last longer/run cooler etc.


For a stock engine you would still get some gains, but would it be worth it for the money and inconvenience. Not yet i reckon.

There are two United servos on Victoria road in Sydney selling E85

Unless you have a boosted car i wouldn't bother cost will negate any benefit. use 30% more fuel with e85, i have found e85 mixtures vary widely, some servos change there mixtures from summer to winter so retuning may be needed to maximise performance (have found this on a mates car) . Just not cost effective on standard car IMO.

While there are available gains from using E85 there are also a lot of drawbacks.

Sure it is cheaper per litre at the moment but remember also you are going to use about 20-30% more fuel per km.
The set-up costs can be relatively large. Being upgrades to fuel system plus the tuning to get the gains.
Other extra costs come down the road a couple of years, these are replacing many fuel system components in a much shorter time frame than if running 98.
Then you may or may not find personal reasons to dislike it, I know a guy with a full-on Skyline GTR who put it on E85 and swore by it, gained about 50Kw @ wheels from memory. However after a while he reckons he hated the smell and fumes and decided to go back to 98 (at least that was the reason he gave me).

The biggest problems I can see are firstly the lack of consistent quality in E85 fuel, as it really can vary quite dramatically and to me is the biggest drawback, and it isn't well regulated either.
Secondly the lack of availability. I too only know of 2 servo's selling it, casula and I think out Penrith or something. Even if you get an ECU that runs dual maps (which Magna ECU's can likely do once someone works out how) that is still a pain in the butt.

I reckon the biggest benefit is to guys running highly stressed engines, like big boosted engines, as the E85 will actually help their engines last longer/run cooler etc.


For a stock engine you would still get some gains, but would it be worth it for the money and inconvenience. Not yet i reckon.
wish we had it here, its three dollar a litre here, and we have to buy it in drums... something i have to look forward too for loud1

Unless you have a boosted car i wouldn't bother cost will negate any benefit. use 30% more fuel with e85, i have found e85 mixtures vary widely, some servos change there mixtures from summer to winter so retuning may be needed to maximise performance (have found this on a mates car) . Just not cost effective on standard car IMO.

Exactly, because it isn't well regulated it isn't of consistent quality. It would be like tuning your car specifically for 98, but every time you go to fill up you don't know if you are getting 98 or maybe 95, maybe even 91.

Exactly, because it isn't well regulated it isn't of consistent quality. It would be like tuning your car specifically for 98, but every time you go to fill up you don't know if you are getting 98 or maybe 95, maybe even 91.

So all that money that the federal government donated to Holden to develop FlexFuel support is...wasted?

So all that money that the federal government donated to Holden to develop FlexFuel support is...wasted?

Not at all - These cars can run e85 and 91-98 with no problems, the computer can adjust accordingly. The problem older cars have (in particular the magna's) is that the ECU needs to be tuned for 1 of the fuel types available.

The commodores and falcons can switch between fuels without any dramas, you could call it a hybrid in a way.

Even with fuel quality consistency, there is not a large enough difference to really create dramas. It's not the octane in the fuel you should be worried about but the concentrations of benzene rings - these are the compounds that cause a huge amount of damage.

Not at all - These cars can run e85 and 91-98 with no problems, the computer can adjust accordingly. The problem older cars have (in particular the magna's) is that the ECU needs to be tuned for 1 of the fuel types available.

The commodores and falcons can switch between fuels without any dramas, you could call it a hybrid in a way.

Even with fuel quality consistency, there is not a large enough difference to really create dramas. It's not the octane in the fuel you should be worried about but the concentrations of benzene rings - these are the compounds that cause a huge amount of damage.

Any commodore (or old 3rd gen magna for that matter) can run 91-98. Flexfuel was supposed to be a new era in affordable motoring in a holden, with the ability to use any mix of ethanol up to 85%. However there is no way to utilise it if the servos dont stock it. To me, thats a waste of tax payers money. They could have put that money to use like a commodore with a decent economical diesel motor up front. This is why the commodore will follow the falcon to its grave.

Any commodore (or old 3rd gen magna for that matter) can run 91-98.

Yes but to get the full benefit of it you would need to have it tuned


However there is no way to utilise it if the servos dont stock it.

There are quite a few servos in Victoria that are stocking it with more and more servo's to stock it on the way. There was a time when premium fuels were only available at a few stations around Australia, and there was also a time when very few servo's stocked unleaded for that fact. You have to give these things time and the more vehicles on the road that support newer fuels the more the service stations will stock them. It also doesn't help if people actively avoid these fuels for their cars as well.

THIS IS THE STUFF TO GET YOU MOVing
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/NOS-NITROUS-SNIPER-UNIVERSAL-EFI-WET-KIT-FOGGER-SYSTEM-/200601405443?_trksid=p4340.m8&_trkparms=algo%3DMW%26its%3DC%252BS%26itu%3DUCC%26 otn%3D12%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D2658134908217652840

Where are these kits you speak of?
http://www.flexfuelkits.com.au/
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/GERMANY-TUV-APPROVED-TEC2-E85-FLEXFUEL-CONVERSION-KIT-GM-FORD-DODGE-8-CYLINDER-/330741322596?hash=item4d01b81364#ht_8511wt_1168
and there re others i did see one approved by american motoring bodies

also i think that as more people use it more will stock it and supply will go up. thereby decreasing price. yes demand will increase however being ethanol is not subject to the same taxes and being locally produced is not going to inccur import taxes. also as it becomes more commonpace it will surely become regulated just as regular petrolis.
also as it becomes more common i am sure conversion price will be cheaper as more mechanics become knowledgeable on what exactly to do thereby increasing competition and hopefully reducing price.

http://www.flexfuelkits.com.au/
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/GERMANY-TUV-APPROVED-TEC2-E85-FLEXFUEL-CONVERSION-KIT-GM-FORD-DODGE-8-CYLINDER-/330741322596?hash=item4d01b81364#ht_8511wt_1168
and there re others i did see one approved by american motoring bodies

also i think that as more people use it more will stock it and supply will go up. thereby decreasing price. yes demand will increase however being ethanol is not subject to the same taxes and being locally produced is not going to inccur import taxes. also as it becomes more commonpace it will surely become regulated just as regular petrolis.
also as it becomes more common i am sure conversion price will be cheaper as more mechanics become knowledgeable on what exactly to do thereby increasing competition and hopefully reducing price.

Firstly, ebay. Come on now, lets keep this serious yes?

Secondly, flexfuelkits looks extremely dodgy. All it looks like is some mapping equipment. Do they resolve the problem with incompatible fuel tank, fuel lines, rubber seals, etc? Short answer - No.

Personally I have seen the mess both E85 and other ethanol based or added fuel use, I will never knowingly put this in my car if I can avoid it.

The 10% stuff is ok'ish on a long trip where it will go in and then get used up but a lot of cars fill up and this stuff remains in the tank for weeks. The amount of cars I am getting in with rusted tanks etc now is shocking. The 380 has plastic lines so there is no issue there with rubber however inside the tank the lines are rubber and add to this the tank is metal, I have seen a few rusty 380 tanks now also

Add to this the E85, I have seent he internals of an evo engine that was run (and tuned properly) for e85, the injectors were covered in what looked like tar and one piston was melted due to lean out as that injector blocked completely. Motor was less than 5k old, one woudl think that after a proper tune you would get at least 6 months running without a retune.....not

What makes me laugh these days is people are so willing to spend thousands on thinks like Projector Kits, Wheels, AUdio but then will try and save $2.50 on the parts of the car that can cost the most to replace. Oh well, keeps me in business I gues lol

Fair call..

I've seen United has 100 Octane stuff now and it has 10% ethanol..

I've got a tank of BP Commercial Fuel which is 100 Octane (No Ethanol) that i've thrown in the Verada for sh*ts n giggles for the MM Road Trip..

I guess we'll see how she goes!

But back on topic..

E85 is everywhere in the states.. The Galants over there, are run on E85 FLEX FUEL and the Hertz dealer in LA had a Galant there with 251000 miles on it.. Bloke said.. Its the best car he's ever had.

I guess they're build process includes parts that arent as susceptible to 'corrosion' in comparison to the Aus built cars..?

SuFz :ninja:

Sufz the fuel system will differ a little, however australian fuels are known for their crap quality and inconsistancy. I've heard e85 in aus contains between 40-85% ethanol.... Heaps consistent hey.

Im currently running e85 on the vrx with a '75..


however anyone know what needs to be done how much it would cost and peoples opinions for a stock car

More fuel flow! You will need a higher flow pump – walbro is a reasbly priced unit, and injectors. Factory ecu can run 85 with no issues its all just in the tuning. I am working with bcx at the moment for dual maps for h8 factorys ecus and not far off, we also have knock reading but not full knock control as of yet. Currently using a single map with 85 tune but can easily just upload a 98 tune if need be.


i think it would give a great performance boost better than 98RON and also be cheaper to run.

Definitely a notable improvement, I have only done this in preparation for a project im slowing working on. It was more a trial to see if i could run it and at the same time implement factory ecu mods. I have only self road tuned so is possible i could gain even more but isn't worth it as i haven't finished with the motor yet.
Unless you can find parts at a good price and be prepared to do your own labour and have tuning knowledge etc then it can be pricey and be questioned if its worth it.

Another thing is you need to do research in to what 85 is available near you, in SA we have 2 pump options and a couple of other options (buying drums etc) the 2 pumps here are united and caltex.

To give an example of prices last time I filled up which was around a month ago, 98 was 1.69 85 was 1.26... while you do use more of it, it still works out a fraction cheaper you just have the hassle of a tank lasting less.

Another advantage is because its a cleaner running fuel you get a lot less exhaust soot if you have a stainless or chrome tip you'll noticed it will stay clean longer then petrol

Have a look around the net, there is alot of info around supporting e85. You just need to know what your doing before starting to run something that can be a hassle if done wrong

i would have no probs fitting the larger injectors and the larger fuel pump myself. the problem i have is i would not be able to get the ecu tuned. i would need to find someone and pay them to do it and that is where the most cost would be i assume looking at up to $1000 as it would all have to be done custom.
i know of atleast 1 united not too far fromme with e85. i am confident availability isnt an issue.
my concern is in the longevity of the fuel lines, fuel tank, valve seats etc.

More fuel flow! You will need a higher flow pump – walbro is a reasbly priced unit, and injectors. Factory ecu can run 85 with no issues its all just in the tuning. I am working with bcx at the moment for dual maps for h8 factorys ecus and not far off, we also have knock reading but not full knock control as of yet. Currently using a single map with 85 tune but can easily just upload a 98 tune if need be.
so you are getting the knock sensor in the 6g75 to work with the 3rd gen ecu? wold love to see how you go getting it to work. i am a fair while off having the cash to spend on doing this. i am anticipating it to cost bout $2500 or $4000 if i also swap from 6g74 to 6g75.

so you are getting the knock sensor in the 6g75 to work with the 3rd gen ecu? wold love to see how you go getting it to work. i am a fair while off having the cash to spend on doing this. i am anticipating it to cost bout $2500 or $4000 if i also swap from 6g74 to 6g75.

We've found a donor rom from another car, and changing the relevant parts to make it work with the third gen ignition system (dizzy, single O2). Donor rom is capable of knock input and has a 'high' & 'low' octane map. there's some slight differences we need to over come - mainly due to the fact the PCB is different in a third gen compared with the donor ECU.

Once this is done, we can patch the rom to add features like valet mode, switchable maps, large maps, etc to the ROM (thats the easy part believe it or not!)

We've found a donor rom from another car, and changing the relevant parts to make it work with the third gen ignition system (dizzy, single O2). Donor rom is capable of knock input and has a 'high' & 'low' octane map. there's some slight differences we need to over come - mainly due to the fact the PCB is different in a third gen compared with the donor ECU.

Once this is done, we can patch the rom to add features like valet mode, switchable maps, large maps, etc to the ROM (thats the easy part believe it or not!)

would be very interested to hear how you go with this. when you are finished would also be interested to see how it would go in a 6g74? with the 6g74 not having a knock sensor i wonder if it would be possible to manually switch the ecu from rom to rom.