Hi I have a 2000 magna tj with 170000k's that loses about 1/2 its oil over 1000k's. My uncle owned this car previously and because it had a rocker cover leak he did not change the oil only topped it up.When I first got the car it had a lot of difficulty cranking and the engine made made some clicking noises when it was cold. After I got the car I changed the rocker cover gaskets and flushed the engine and changed the oil to penrite synthetic 10w40 and I also added wyn's supreme engine treatment. The car runs much smoother now and the engine bay and driveway is clean but it still loses oil.When the engine is reved suddenly it tends to give out blue smoke , and during winter it gives out steam from the exhaust.

The car also makes a clicking sound once, each time the wheel is turned almost full lock , i've checked the cv boots and they are good.

Any ideas on what could be wrong?

clicking noise on steering - check the front tyres for embedded nail/screw, check play on CV joints.
clicking noise on startup - probably hydraulic lifters stiff from lack of oil changes. May free up by themselves.
blue smoke = oil burning, could be valve stem seals or rings.
steam from exhaust is normal, petrol burning produces water vapour that condenses when it hits the cold air. (Assuming coolant level doesn't drop at all.)

Get someone to drive behind you to see how bad the blue smoke is. At 170,000 km the car should really still be in good condition, most of the above is due to lack of routine servicing and/or sitting around for long periods of time.

Thanks for the advice madmax I think the smoke may be the stem seals being hardened as the car does not have enough mileage for worn piston rings.The blue smoke is only there when it is revved hard and suddenly say from idle to 4k rpm otherwise it burns clean and does not give any smoke during normal driving.Is it possible for such an engine to lose the amount of oil from the max mark to the min mark of the dipstick?

This is the car
http://www.flickr.com/photos/54571944@N03/8098677489/in/photostream/

Tidy car, nice colour.

Yes, probably valve stem seals if it only does it after idling for a bit.

Drive it, and check the oil level every 100 km or so to get an idea of how much it is actually using. Only way to tell. I believe anything up to 1.5L of oil per 1,000 km is classed as "acceptable" by most car makers.

When I ran an oil burner Mitsu, I used to up the oil level after a change to 1 cm above the "full" mark, just to be safe. lol

Ok will do thanks for your help :)

Be careful about overfilling with too much oil. Being 1cm above Full is ok but overdone the crank may be in contact with the oil every time it goes round significantly increasing mechanical resistance and fuel consumption - I'll just keep monitoring the oil to keep it between the Full and Low points.

Also 10W40 is a rather light oil. Maybe in the next oil change move up to something thicker like 20W50 or anything 50. Or even 60.

It looks nice

Be careful about overfilling with too much oil. Being 1cm above Full is ok but overdone the crank may be in contact with the oil every time it goes round significantly increasing mechanical resistance and fuel consumption - I'll just keep monitoring the oil to keep it between the Full and Low points.

Also 10W40 is a rather light oil. Maybe in the next oil change move up to something thicker like 20W50 or anything 50. Or even 60.

1 cm is fine, 5 litres extra isn't lol (Yes, one of my rellies did that . . . . lol)
Thicker oil may help, also an additive to free up the lifters if they don't come good by then.

I think the difference between the two marks on the dipstick is about 1L, so keep an eye on it.

Be careful about overfilling with too much oil. Being 1cm above Full is ok but overdone the crank may be in contact with the oil every time it goes round significantly increasing mechanical resistance and fuel consumption - I'll just keep monitoring the oil to keep it between the Full and Low points.

Also 10W40 is a rather light oil. Maybe in the next oil change move up to something thicker like 20W50 or anything 50. Or even 60.

Worse than that, the crank will turn the oil into froth. Your engine will die very quickly from lack of lubrication

Edit: 20w-50 / 60 is way way out of spec for this engine. Even with 170k kms on the clock i would be looking at other reasons that it is consuming oil

Thanks for all the help guys, apart from the small niggles the car has been a great, am enjoying every moment I drive it.When I was first given the car I was disappointed that it was FWD but this thing handles like its on rails, very powerful too.

Worse than that, the crank will turn the oil into froth. Your engine will die very quickly from lack of lubrication

Edit: 20w-50 / 60 is way way out of spec for this engine. Even with 170k kms on the clock i would be looking at other reasons that it is consuming oil

Thanks Dave but no matter what you say the expert will continue to mislead others with the assumptions

If you have valve stem issues then the only way to stop it is to fix it

Also 1.5l per 1000 km consumption. I have heard crap spouted before but that is a we one

I've heard that as the engine becomes older you switch to a thicker oil, at this mileage what would be the best oil to use?

I've heard that as the engine becomes older you switch to a thicker oil, at this mileage what would be the best oil to use?

10w-40. You also need a quality synthetic oil that exceeds manufacturer specs. Penrite make very good oil that works well in these v6 engines. It exceeds specifications for even the fussiest euro cars like MB and BMW.

As these engine become older, you should try and still use the same weight ongoing. Piston rings etc do slacken off the seal with age, but the by-product of that is a bit more oil consumption. These engines should be good for well over 200,000k's before an engine needs a rebuild. If you start using a thicker oil, you will struggle with getting the car started when its cold especially in the southern states during the winter. Further to this, a much thicker oil will be detrimental to performance as it greatly increases resistance for the mechanical parts.

So what IS the right oil to use for a 3.5L magna/varada? (KF, 170k)

Been told soo many different things...

I see Dave suggests a 10w-40 synthetic oil (fully synth?) Been told dont need to worry about synth oils for these cards. Been told you HAVE to have them too

What oil to use? Depends on how you use the car. If you are a hard driver who does a lot of km and sticks to the recommended oil change intervals of 12 months or 15,000 km then a fully synthetic would be good. Then again if the car is used to run kids to school in the morning and does 3,000 km in a year, synthetic is probably overkill and not money effective. As to grades, look in the glovebox owner's manual and see what it says is ok for the 3.5L engine. Wide range of grades to choose from.

As to oil consumption, do a quick Google search on "acceptable oil consumption" and you will find that most manufacturers deny warranty claims for excessive oil consumption below about 1 quart per 500 miles as in the case of GM with the Corvette (http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-z06-discussion/2558801-gm-document-for-normal-oil-consumption-ridiculous-2.html), which is BS of course, but it's considered "normal" by GM to avoid warranty rebuilds. More "normal" is to not need to add oil between oil changes.

OK?

Worth a read
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1598033

What oil to use? Depends on how you use the car. If you are a hard driver who does a lot of km and sticks to the recommended oil change intervals of 12 months or 15,000 km then a fully synthetic would be good. Then again if the car is used to run kids to school in the morning and does 3,000 km in a year, synthetic is probably overkill and not money effective.

Y'see i think this is completely wrong. For the sake of a few more dollars, why skimp on such an important consumable? Also, if the car is doing short trips all year round, I would definately be moving to a fully synthetic. It is more resistant to moisture and won't be contaminated as easily.

As to grades, look in the glovebox owner's manual and see what it says is ok for the 3.5L engine. Wide range of grades to choose from.


As to oil consumption, do a quick Google search on "acceptable oil consumption" and you will find that most manufacturers deny warranty claims for excessive oil consumption below about 1 quart per 500 miles as in the case of GM with the Corvette (http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-z06-discussion/2558801-gm-document-for-normal-oil-consumption-ridiculous-2.html), which is BS of course, but it's considered "normal" by GM to avoid warranty rebuilds. More "normal" is to not need to add oil between oil changes.

Have you seen the oil consumption on modern VAG turbo petrols? My friend's A4 Quattro goes through about a litre every 1500km. It has done 50,000km :| Apparently it is a design feature with 'soft' piston rings, and the blow-by of oil helps lubriate certain parts of the engine.


Worth a read
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1598033

Indeed, this is a good website for reading up on oils.

i would hate to see the repercussions of 1 liter of oil being used in 1000k's over a long period. when i blew the suby up it was using about that much and the amount of oil in all the vacuum hoses was phenomenal, as well as the 02 sensor being ruined and the cat being completely black.

and the blow-by of oil helps lubricate certain parts of the engine.

Pretty high crankcase pressure to do that i would think. Generally oil is used/consumed due to the rings and the oil scraper rings becoming worn and weak and not doing their job and leaving an oil film on the cylinder bore.
"Blow By" Is generally from compression of the fuel air charge and the high pressure created pushing down past the above weak piston rings into the crankcase and this then in turn with an oil mist is sucked or often pressured into the induction plenum/manifold by the pcv valve crankcase ventilation system and could lubricate the inlet valves a little i guess but with todays hard valves and valve seats not really of any need. Not a design feature from new anyway.
This is why you get oil in the aircleaner or breather tube to atmosphere of really old cars or injection plenum on EFI vehicles.
New cars are also created with finer tolerances than they used to and thus the main need for lighter weight oils and to reduce friction in the interests of better fuel economy..

Engines that do use oil from new are generally aircooled aircraft engines mainly due to the harsher environments of sub zero temps at altitude and high temps at ground level. Thus tolerances of moving parts are larger to take into account larger expansion and contraction due to these temp differences so this is a design feature. Watercooled auto engines donot need this due to a stable temp when running.

Good point about air cooled engines.
You would think that burning oil would be working against the efforts of car manufacturers to reduce emissions. Definite reason to fail an emission test I would think - if they ever start doing that in roadworthy examinations.

Pretty high crankcase pressure to do that i would think. Generally oil is used/consumed due to the rings and the oil scraper rings becoming worn and weak and not doing their job and leaving an oil film on the cylinder bore.
"Blow By" Is generally from compression of the fuel air charge and the high pressure created pushing down past the above weak piston rings into the crankcase and this then in turn with an oil mist is sucked or often pressured into the induction plenum/manifold by the pcv valve crankcase ventilation system and could lubricate the inlet valves a little i guess but with todays hard valves and valve seats not really of any need. Not a design feature from new anyway.
This is why you get oil in the aircleaner or breather tube to atmosphere of really old cars or injection plenum on EFI vehicles.
New cars are also created with finer tolerances than they used to and thus the main need for lighter weight oils and to reduce friction in the interests of better fuel economy..

Engines that do use oil from new are generally aircooled aircraft engines mainly due to the harsher environments of sub zero temps at altitude and high temps at ground level. Thus tolerances of moving parts are larger to take into account larger expansion and contraction due to these temp differences so this is a design feature. Watercooled auto engines donot need this due to a stable temp when running.

Volkswagen oil consumption is well documented in certain engines, but little understood.

http://www.vwwatercooled.org.au/forums/f15/mk5-gti-oil-consumption-74230.html

http://www.golfmk5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68916

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?3784662

In fact, a simple google search will produce thousands of reports of excessive oil consumption for the TFSI engine. Basically, they use forged Mahle pistons which promote oil consumption more than the regular cast pistons due to the design and material of the piston rings.

the design and material of the piston rings.

Thats the clincher there itself as there are lots of vehicles out there with forged pistons that donot use oil. Also the Golf GTI is a high performance turbo motor that is somewhat different from a Magna engine.
Lots of variables in there on how an engine is looked after run in, serviced regularly etc etc.
In Germany we also drive alot faster mostly and the car is not under 160-180 and fster for extended periods when on the autobahn and this is often the case from brand new and this can affect oil consumption as well.Brother and mates think nothing of drving new cars from new that fast......... as its the norm there.
In general from new these VW engines are are in the minority when it comes to excessive oil consumption especially at low mileage.
ALso lots note that it often gets better as the engine beds in. Takes alot longer nowadays with nikasil bores and other super hard coatings and tougher ring material.etc Trick is to get the right combination as the rings need to wear at the expense of the bore.
Probably a change of ring material will overcome this as other manufacturers have had to do in the past when faced with engines using excessive oil from new.........5.7 Holdens a few years ago had some big problems as well.

As to grades, look in the glovebox owner's manual and see what it says is ok for the 3.5L engine. Wide range of grades to choose from.


My owner's handbook that lives in the glovebox of my TL tells me the original factory fill is 5W-30, but gives a wide range of viscosities right up to 20W-50 that are ok for the car.
I guess viscosity, brand and Dino versus Synthetic are up to the owners' preferences.