Hmm, i've been monitoring the ATF every 2 weeks since the power flush (http://www.aussiemagna.com/forums/showthread.php?t=95287&p=1507723&viewfull=1#post1507723). Level remains constant, but i notice a slight colour to the fluid right at the bottom of the stick when first pulling it out. Looks like grey streaky material suspended in the oil.

Wiping on a clean cloth and it comes away like a smudge. Put the stick back in and pull it out and it looks nice and clear with a pink tinge, no sign of the grey colour at all.

Intuitively this looks like metal particulate to me, very fine, but what do i know?
Anyone know what this is?

Probably aluminium wear material. Seen it before in motorcycles where the clutch runs in the gearbox oil.

Probably aluminium wear material. Seen it before in motorcycles where the clutch runs in the gearbox oil.
Yes, looks like aluminium. Very fine, very thin. Is it normal to find it on the dipstick?

Thus why I highly recommend external trans filters, the internal one does not remove this at all

Motor cycle clutches run one set of metal discs with sliding splines on a smaller central hub, while the second set of plates are fibre and have fingers that slide on the outer hub.

Like so:

http://www.dansmc.com/ducati_single_clutch.JPG

http://www.dansmc.com/ducati_single_clutch.JPG

The aluminium comes from the sliding friction where the plates meet the outer and inner hubs, when the clutch is engaged and released.

Car auto gearboxes have several clutches that are similar in design.

Motor cycle gearboxes are generally splash lubricated and the aluminium sludge settles harmlessly down to the bottom, don't know if the same applies to a car's auto box though seeing the oil is being picked up and pumped around. If it is only on the bottom of the dipstick, perhaps it's settling down to the bottom of the transmission? Any iron containing wear material would be picked up by the magnet, unfortunately aluminium isn't.

If it worries you, you could drop the trans sump and clean out any aluminium sludge, and install an external filter as Madmagna suggests.
(Can't find a good picture of an automatic gearbox clutch, so a Ducati motorcycle one will do.)

Did find a car auto box clutch picture after a bit of a search - Subaru high/low/reverse clutch - pretty similar idea.

http://iptperformancetransmissions.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/img_1604.jpg?w=300&h=225

I remember i had some aluminium window frames and when i used tu run a wet rag around them i'd collect a similiar looking smear of grey oxide or aluminium on the rag.
Thanks fir this info guys. This stuff cant be good for moving parts.

An external filter woukd bave to have a pretty fine filter to catch this stuff wouldnt it?, and it would have to provide an easy method to swap out the filter or it could clog up. Is that how they come?

An external filter would need about 50% of your clutch material through it all at once before it blocked up, added to this given that you check the fluid on a regular basis, you will see your fluid turning colour and know it is time for a change

How to you think an engine oil filter works?

How to you think an engine oil filter works?

I wouldnt know, i guess its got some fibrous material (like paper) inside the oil filter body that traps fine stuff?
So external tranny filter kits come with a removable device like that? This sounds like an easy mod with potentially big benefits to me.

Could someone post a pic if they have one so i can understand what these filters are and how they're installed?

I dont have any pics but I use the Derale ones, they are a spin on filter similar to the engine oil filter. There are some cheap inline filters out there, they are better than nothing I guess but not much better lol

These mount to a bracket I put on top of the trans, redirect the lines to the filter and back into the normal system

While not ideal the filter is placed in the last part of the system and is not pre fluid pump but there is nothing that can be done about that

http://static.summitracing.com/global/images/prod/large/der-13091_w.jpg

Derale kit

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/DER-13091/

While similar to the kit I sell that kit is not the kit used on the Magna, take away all the guage crap and yo have what is being used

Kit is available with and without a temperature gauge.

Temp gauge would be useful if towing without a cooler, or if you have a cooler to tell you if it is effective. Or if you just run stock.
It's probably the easiest way to get a temp gauge on the gearbox, if you are interested in that sort of thing.
Cooler, filter, temp gauge = nice package.

I see, that makes sense now. A few questions come up; whats the risk of the kit leaking in use? How is it attached to the transmission? (For instance, do u utilise existing anchor points or drill new holes?) Whats the risk of the filter or rubber components themselves shedding material into the ATF? Whats the risk of filter failure? (i.e. blocked flow), etc.

Kit is available with and without a temperature gauge.

Temp gauge would be useful if towing without a cooler, or if you have a cooler to tell you if it is effective. Or if you just run stock.
It's probably the easiest way to get a temp gauge on the gearbox, if you are interested in that sort of thing.
Cooler, filter, temp gauge = nice package.
I dk, i'd like a pressure guage or flow meter, something that would reassure me that the ATF is flowing!
Thats one thing i hate not having on the dash for the auto, although a well placed temp sensor on the trannsmission would be useful.

Bump on my previous questions, especially how is it attached and whats the risk of failure?

Hmm, havent noticed any repeat of this grey streaking, so i dk what that was all about. I'll keep monitoring.

On a side note, ppl often talk about "cherry red" ATF colour, but after having a full flush with the correct mitsu fluid it always looks clear on the stick, and slightly pink on a cloth.

It's cherry red when you drain it out.

The cooler is mounted near your radiator using a custom bracket. if you use decent quality hoses (I personally like using gates hoses) and tighten them properly to the cooler unit then the changes of failure are extremely low. Nonetheless, you should include inspecting the unit as part of your regular servicing routine, just to check for any leakage or dried fluid in that general vicinity.

As for the filter failing, the chances of this are also incredibly low if using a brand name filter. It would be about the same risk as your fuel filter or oil filter failing and it is very rare to hear of that occuring unless counterfeit or very poor quality generic parts are used. Are you thinking of doing it DIY or by a pro? If by a pro, then a warranty on the workmanship would be included to protect yourself if any components fail due to negligence. There is also generally a warranty included on the parts, which should persuade you to buy Australian made if possible.

It's cherry red when you drain it out.

The cooler is mounted near your radiator using a custom bracket. if you use decent quality hoses (I personally like using gates hoses) and tighten them properly to the cooler unit then the changes of failure are extremely low. Nonetheless, you should include inspecting the unit as part of your regular servicing routine, just to check for any leakage or dried fluid in that general vicinity.

As for the filter failing, the chances of this are also incredibly low if using a brand name filter. It would be about the same risk as your fuel filter or oil filter failing and it is very rare to hear of that occuring unless counterfeit or very poor quality generic parts are used. Are you thinking of doing it DIY or by a pro? If by a pro, then a warranty on the workmanship would be included to protect yourself if any components fail due to negligence. There is also generally a warranty included on the parts, which should persuade you to buy Australian made if possible.

Thanks mate, no i'd get someone who knows what they're doing to do it.
I want to know how the bracket is attached to the tranny, do we need to drill holes or is some existing? Probably do this after i work through the other issues first.

I was thinking about this whole cooler problem in my head; would have thought the engineers ensured the design was sufficient. I guess taxi work would change that, but my cars not doing that kind of work. Also, i assume the fluid needs to reach operating temp pretty quickly.

All of these cars should have the coolers, especially the AWD, I have had them in here with under 100k on them with dead transmissions on many occasions.

They are generally mounted to the ac core with some special ties which go through the fins, some are mounted on brackets but have to be custom made. Nothing is mounted to the auto trans itself