Hey guys, wondering if I could get your advice on something!!

I've got a late '97 TF Magna Executive which has just kit 100,000km.. I change the oil & filter every 5,000km and have noticed its always very thin and black. I was originally using Penrite Everyday 10W-40 and upgraded to HPR 10W-50 at 90,000 as i was concerned at how thin it was, but when i dumped the oil at 95,000 & 100,000km it was about the same =\

Everyone (Penrite, Mitsy Service Centres etc...) has told me to keep using HPR 10W-50 but i just wanted to get your opinion on it.. Maybe someone else has had a similar issue???


Thanks for any help you all can give!!!! =D

How do you measure "thin"?

Black is good, means the oil is cleaning the engine. I would be worried if it came out as clean as it went in.

From what you have written Proto, it probably is not worth worrying about. If it starts to get thin and muddy - then worry.
Has you car only got 100K on the clock?
I would probably be using an oil a little thicker to start with though, I think I m am using 15W - 60 Penrite, in my TL with 150K on the clock.

Thin - Almost watery
Yeh its only just done 100K, was always driven 2km to work every for a number of years... I was going to go to 15W-60 but was told its only thicker on start-up and should just stick to 10W-50

The 10W or the 15W is the viscosity and the 40 or 60 is the equivalent viscosity heat range those oils will hold their 10W or 15W up to. Both 10W & 15W are 'thin' as you put it and the recomended viscosity is 15W for the TF.

How do you measure "thin"?

Black is good, means the oil is cleaning the engine. I would be worried if it came out as clean as it went in.

Oh Dear, I've done almost 400,000 and my oil is never black.

HPR10 gets my vote, swapped my fleet over ;)

Do you drop the oil when it is hot?
Watery sounds too thin, maybe you could have a professional change it for one service - look on a shop a docket for a cheap oil change and get there advice. South Australia is far too far away from my place in Brisbane. :)

driven 2 kms to work every day? i reckon its in need of a good run down the highway, a couple solid hours at 100/110kmh would probably do the car a world of good. realistically, the car doesn't even get a chance to hit operating temp on those short trips.

if it has been driven for only small 2km trips its whole life, the motor probably has the same equivalent miles to a taxi with 500,000kms on it.

Oil at operating temperature thins out to a viscosity similar to water, so I would not be too concerned about how thin it is (assuming that you have it warm when you change it). What I would be worried about is the frequency of changes. 100000 km for a 97 model is very low. As said, if ti rarely gets to operating temperature, it is bad running for the engine. Operating temperature for the cooling system is reached fairly quickly. The oil takes a lot longer to reach temperature. A good run on the freeway - followed by a hard run through some mountains would get things warmed up, but beware that the oil level will probably drop suddenly as the pollutants in the oil are burnt off.

Firstly black oil is not bad, it means its doing its job, the detergents in the oil are meant to remove built up and residue of soot from the motor and when you dump the oil and its black it means its doing its job. If the oil comes out a golden colour it means the oil is not cleaning the motor or the motor is in such good shape that there isn't any build up (Which is usually the case because if one oil didn't clean the motor it wouldn't be selling).

My TE has about 400,000k's on it, when I started changing the oil I had black oil, after a few flushes and a few different oils I dump my oil now, now its not gold but its not pitch black which means its getting better.

Oil is meant to be thin, it needs to get through oil feed holes and the tappets with ease, going to a thicker oil would be the worst thing you could do to a motor if it doesn't need it, the thicker the oil the longer it takes for the oil to get to the upper components on start up, which means more chance of wearing the motor.

I used to use Valvoline Engine Armor and after throwing away my griefs with Penrite I have gone to HPR-10 on Madmagna's constant suggestion and I cannot tell any viscosity difference. So I think aslong as you are not having issues with oil pressure or loosing any oil, the oil isn't too thin.

i use 0-40 mobile 0ne and 5-30 nulon in my car depending on the season and outside temp. i have NEVER seen my oil come out like water when its hot.

Do you drop the oil when it is hot?
. :)

Haynes Repair Manual, Magna & Verada 1996-2002: Engine oil and filter change:

"Warm the engine to normal operating temperature."
"With the engine oil warm (warm engine oil will drain better and more built-up sludge will be removed with it),......."

Two opposing theories
Hot drain:
PRO: oil runs out quicker. Maybe moves sludge - but if it moves with the escaping oil, it's not really sludge, is it? That hides in nooks and crannies, and won't move under gravity.
CON: Lots of oil in the top of the engine, need to give it time to dribble out. Also, hot oil from the filter when you pull it off, is not fun - nor is fishing the drain plug out of the hot oil when you drop it accidentally it in the oil drain tin.

Cold drain:
PRO: Not burn delicate skin. Less oil to drain off the cylinder walls, heads etc.
CON: May leave sludge behind. Needs to dribble for a while.

I've done both, and checked the cleanliness of the new fill after running the new oil for a few minutes. Can't see any difference.

Oil change should be done hot, by all the manuals ever written. No big deal if you do it cold though.

Hey again all!

Yeh the 2km thing was between 20K-70K from a previous owner, I take it up the highway every fortnight for work now but its only a 45min drive to get there and it definitely needed it the first time i did it.
The oil is fairly warm on change as i drive to a mates house to do the service. I have taken it to a service agent before to change the oil but they were dodgy so i prefer to do it myself.

Thanks for all your comments BTW =D

A trick I do its drive my car to get oil and filter, drive home, run engine flush through it, wait 15mins then drop oil. Nice and warm that way.