OK Guys - now this may sound a bit dumb - but hey that's OK I can live with it! :)

I often hear on this forum about a "trans flush" which I take is different to a simple drain and refill. Can someone explain the difference please? And can it be done by the average fella at home?

I assume there's a filter inside there too?

Cheers

Steve

in simple terms, a flush is a drain with a solution to clean everything out put through it before completely draining and then refilling. think of it like a water bottle: instead of emptying the warm yucky water out and refilling it straight away, you put a bit of warm soapy water in there and rinse it all out before refilling it.

in simple terms, a flush is a drain with a solution to clean everything out put through it before completely draining and then refilling. think of it like a water bottle: instead of emptying the warm yucky water out and refilling it straight away, you put a bit of warm soapy water in there and rinse it all out before refilling it.

Thanks dReigner - OK - so what's used for the flush; is there a special grade of flushing solution? I don't have a great record of the history of our wagon and would like to "freshen" things up while it's still young-ish.

Steve

i've never had to use one myself, so i can't recommend anything from personal experience. the other guys here are more likely to point you in the right direction.

You flush the trans out with genuine trans fluid from mitsu. I generally use around 10 litres or so, so around $100 in 2 bottles.

in simple terms, a flush is a drain with a solution to clean everything out put through it before completely draining and then refilling. think of it like a water bottle: instead of emptying the warm yucky water out and refilling it straight away, you put a bit of warm soapy water in there and rinse it all out before refilling it.

Actually if you simply drain and fill the transmission there will still be several litres inside it, so it would be like having a full water bottle with old, warm water in it, half emptying it, and topping it up with fresh cool water. You end up with a mix. There are a couple of solutions for the flushing. You could empty the bottle 'entirely' and replace it with fresh fluid (using the transmission flush machines) but they are suggested to cause issues. The most common solution is to do the half empty, refill, half empty, refill method. Sure it doesn't get rid of all the old fluid, but your old fluid shouldn't be so bad as to be problematic with the new fluid.

In terms of the new fluid, the Mitsubishi fluid is good because it's compatible with the transmission, it's got to do with the additives etc in it and the effects on the metals used in the transmission. Other transmission oils can be used if they meet the Mitsubishi MM SP3 spec. In Penrite, for your engine oil HPR10 is the engine oil to use, and for transmission you have the choice of ATF FS (Multi Vehicle Full Synthetic), or Penrite MHP (Semi Synthetic).

ATF FS is a new product last year, and the Penrite MHP has been updated?...

Anyways, ATF FS:

Industry Specifications
Ford MERCON-V (M2C202-B), Ford M2C924-A
Chrysler MS 7176E (ATF+3), JASO 1A
Allison C-4/TES-389/295, Volvo 3344208/97341
Chrysler MS 9602 (ATF+4), Hyundai SP4*
Mazda MV/M-III, Kia SP4*, LT 71141
Toyota T-II/III/IV, Nissanmatic C, D, J K, S*
Toyota WS*, Hyundai 05243-33000 GM DEXRON-VI*
Holden HN2287 ,VW 052990 ,Subaru
BTR 91LE/95LE, Honda ATF 89, 96 and Z1
MB 236.1/236.10/236.11/236.5
BMW 275 and 807, Renault 7711 218 368
GM DEXRON-IIIH/G/F, GM 6297M/GMN10055
ZF TE-ML-11B/14B, Mitsubishi MM SP2/SP3/PA
MAN 339 Type Z-1 & V-1, ZF TE-ML-11 Special Fluid

The most common solution is to do the half empty, refill, half empty, refill method. Sure it doesn't get rid of all the old fluid, but your old fluid shouldn't be so bad as to be problematic with the new fluid.

In terms of the new fluid, the Mitsubishi fluid is good because it's compatible with the transmission, it's got to do with the additives etc in it and the effects on the metals used in the transmission. Other transmission oils can be used if they meet the Mitsubishi MM SP3 spec. In Penrite, for your engine oil HPR10 is the engine oil to use, and for transmission you have the choice of ATF FS (Multi Vehicle Full Synthetic), or Penrite MHP (Semi Synthetic).

Thanks burfadel. Only problem I see is that I would like to replace the unknown fluid with fully synthetic and I therefore don't like the half and half idea?

No other ways? :eh:

Steve

Genuine Mitsubishi fluid is the way to go for auto fluid.

I went through this learning experience recently; if you walk into a dealership and ask for a "transmission flush" they will 9.9 times out of 10 simply do a drain and fill, unless they happen to have a power flush service, when they might ask you. So you have to check and make sure they will do what you actually want. Some have a machine to do the flush, but others simply use the manual method of running the car at short intervals to pump the fluid. You really need to check what they propose to do.

It takes anywhere from about 11 to 16 liters of oil to do the power flush properly. It varies because some operators will simply stop when the oil looks "clean".

Genuine SP3 ATF is the best and only fluid to use, IMHO, while many other fluids are harmful to these cars.

There is a rumor that power flushing an older transmission runs a risk of stirring up sediment. I dont think that I believe that, but I've found no clear proof one way or the other despite diligent searching and asking, but the rumor persists.

As for the engine oil, I'm using Penrite HPR5W full synthetic in my AWD, but my engine has very low k's. Some people believe that the 10W is better for engines with higher mileage.
In my KH, which I've had since new, I never bothered to check what they put into it, but it was always done by dealers at the regular intervals, and no problems with it at all. I assume that it's had a mix of mineral and synthetic oil all it's life until now. It's never blown any smoke, doesn't have any leaks, has original rocker gaskets and seals, seems to have the same power that it's always had, and has over 200,000 k's on it now.

I'm not basing this on experience as a mechanic, which i certainly am not. A little while ago I did some research, and spoke with quite a few experts, including the oil companies. Basically I cross referenced a lot of sources and formed a view about the majority expert opinion.

I agree about the HPR5, it is a 'better choice' if your engine can handle it. 'Red Valdez's' comment is true also, especially in the early days when most ATF's weren't MM SP3 compliant. Instead of sourcing proper MM SP3 fluid, mechanics just chucked what they had in the workshop into the auto's (most likely DX-III) which basically destroyed the transmissions over time. That said, Penrite ATF FS and Penrite MHP are both perfectly safe to use, in that they are no less safe then the standard Mitsubishi fluid. The Penrite ATF FS should actually be better than the Mitsubishi fluid... (due to being fully synthetic and advancements in oil additives and blending).

Mixing the fully synthetic with the mineral oil that is currently in there (I believe the Mitsubishi oil is a mineral oil or maybe semi-synth?) is not an issue, the oils are perfectly fine to be mixed. A solution around the issue is simply do the empty-refill, empty-refill this year, and next year just do a single empty-refill. This way you basically replace the fluid volume every 3 years and the cost doesn't hit you all at once. Also this way, overall, you will have a fresher 'average' for the oil in the transmission.

I went through this learning experience recently; if you walk into a dealership and ask for a "transmission flush" they will 9.9 times out of 10 simply do a drain and fill, unless they happen to have a power flush service, when they might ask you. So you have to check and make sure they will do what you actually want. Some have a machine to do the flush, but others simply use the manual method of running the car at short intervals to pump the fluid. You really need to check what they propose to do.

Hey KWAWD - I'm exactly like you; to the point that I am suspicious of mechanics until I know that they really do what they bill me for!

When we first had my wife's brand new Nissan Pulsar I always took my own synthetic oils in - coz they charged us as if it was synthetic anyway (huge mark-ups on 200 Lt Castrol or Valvoline). I would also take in my own filter that was often half the price of the OEM one - though I really do respect Nissan parts for their durability.

I want as proper a flush as I can get - and I'd like to fill it with synth; guess I have to either:


Do it myself.
Pay the money for someone else - and grill 'em prior.
Take my chances?


Steve

Oh, there's lots of problems out there. In the early years, while I was still paying off my new KH, I had the dealer do the regular servicing as per the book, paying them their standard expensive rates. Good insurance I thought.
Anyhow to cut a long story short I discovered that they had not flushed the ATF when scheduled. I found out about 30k after the service, quite by accident when chatting with one of the mechs there on another topic. (I'm speaking here of just the regular drain and fill).

When I went in there and asked them about it, they said they only flushed the ATF "if it needed it". Needless to say they lost my business (years of servicing). Wankers were still charging me the standard fee without doing the job!

You have to check what there're doing.

Here's an autospeed article about servicing a Verada auto trans, might be useful:

http://autospeed.com/cms/title_Flushing-your-Transmission/A_112240/article.html

Here's an autospeed article about servicing a Verada auto trans, might be useful:

http://autospeed.com/cms/title_Flushing-your-Transmission/A_112240/article.html

Great article - thanks Rough!

Steve

I read the above article - first I've heard of removing "3 small bolts along the bottom of the transmission case".
If you removed the drain plug first (& waited for the fluid to stop dripping) would you get a worthwhile additional amount of fluid by removing these bolts?

As for draining, adding fluid, running the engine "for a few seconds" then draining again, are they saying that -if you timed it right - you would get mainly old fluid the second time?