First of all I know I've been asking a lot of questions on here, it's because I'm still very amateur and I need to know certain things to allocate funds for my car.

Pertaining to converting to the 380 engine, I have several main questions:

1. Is the size and structure between both engines similar to the extent of not needing to source other parts?

2. Wll my existing pacemaker headers still be relevant?

3. Any recommended peripherals such as 380 front brakes, new suspension etc?

4. Is $1785 for a 66000km 6G75 block reasonable?

5. Anything important I'm being noob and missing?

Would it be fair to consider the Kw of my car almost equivalent to the billed ~170Kw of the 380?

Cheers!

3. Any recommended peripherals such as 380 front brakes, new suspension etc?
Personal choice there, but huge gains to be had with the 380 brake upgrade and a suspension upgrade.


Would it be fair to consider the Kw of my car almost equivalent to the billed ~170Kw of the 380?
The 380 is hampered severely by its exhaust. A 6G75 in a manual Magna is good for around 160kw at the wheels.

The 380 is hampered severely by its exhaust. A 6G75 in a manual Magna is good for around 160kw at the wheels.

Meaning the 380 has a bad exhaust or the magna system hampers the 6G75? Thanks for the reply too!

Meaning the 380 has a bad exhaust or the magna system hampers the 6G75? Thanks for the reply too!
The 380 (the vehicle) is hampered severely by its exhaust.

Not sure if the Magna systems hampers the 6G75 - I don't think anyone has been conclusively able to prove it one way or another - but if it did, I think the restriction would be minimal.

First of all I know I've been asking a lot of questions on here, it's because I'm still very amateur and I need to know certain things to allocate funds for my car.

Pertaining to converting to the 380 engine, I have several main questions:

1. Is the size and structure between both engines similar to the extent of not needing to source other parts?

The parts you need will come off your existing 6g74

2. Wll my existing pacemaker headers still be relevant?

The 380 sump is deeper so the pacemakers will not fit. There is a way around this though.

3. Any recommended peripherals such as 380 front brakes, new suspension etc?

You will be dealing with much more power. It would be wise to upgrade your brakes and to have reasonably good condition suspension.

4. Is $1785 for a 66000km 6G75 block reasonable?

For a block? No heads, no that is not reasonable. $1785 appears to be what people are willing to pay these days for a complete engine, but I would want some pretty bloody good warranty for that price.

5. Anything important I'm being noob and missing?

Lots of things, you just haven't asked the right questions :)

Would it be fair to consider the Kw of my car almost equivalent to the billed ~170Kw of the 380?

You will make some serious power from this. More power than most people could make with a 3.5. 170 is the figure for the 380 as a whole car. The exhaust had a very restricting emmissions control system. On a magna with extractors and a straight through muffler, you will be flying. Hence point 3.

Cheers!

A couple of points in red. I haven't covered everything.

I have a few questions:

How "factory" is the installation? Is it as quiet as the 3.5 or is there extra noise?

How well does the 4sp auto cope with the extra grunt?

Is everything still easily accessable for servicing, such oil filter, rear spark plugs, cylinder block drain plugs, timing belt etc. and anything else that you may need to get at in the engine bay?

i have a few questions:

How "factory" is the installation? Is it as quiet as the 3.5 or is there extra noise?
same as the 3.5l

how well does the 4sp auto cope with the extra grunt?
copes well.

is everything still easily accessable for servicing, such oil filter, rear spark plugs, cylinder block drain plugs, timing belt etc. And anything else that you may need to get at in the engine bay?
the engine is pretty much identical to the 3.5l when you have bolted on all the magna gear to it. Servicing requirements are the same. Level of accessibility is the same. I'd even hazard a guess that most mechanics wouldn't even notice the engine being a 3.8l.


purple monkey dishwasher

do you lob the end of the 380 manifold off or just extend the cable to run the t/body

do you lob the end of the 380 manifold off or just extend the cable to run the t/body

Use the magna manifold, or get a longer cable to use the 380 manifold.

Service wise - Its literally all the same..

Extra grunt through the 4spd... Not sure if its been done on a 4spd yet..

SuFz :ninja:

I have done at least 10 on the 4sp auto, they handle the motor just fine with no issues at all. Oldest one was a KE with about 300k on the clock, car is a 1 owner and the owner has confirmed is the original trans in the car

I have done at least 10 on the 4sp auto, they handle the motor just fine with no issues at all. Oldest one was a KE with about 300k on the clock, car is a 1 owner and the owner has confirmed is the original trans in the car

There we go!

While you're at it, you should probably look at installing an aftermarket transmission cooler too.. They're definitely worth their weight in gold!

SuFz :ninja:

Are you using a diy guide to do it? I've heard there's on floating around but I haven't managed to find it.

There we go!

While you're at it, you should probably look at installing an aftermarket transmission cooler too.. They're definitely worth their weight in gold!

SuFz :ninja:

On this occasion I agree with you 100%. :)

On this occasion I agree with you 100%. :)

This could be the start of something special!

To the OP..

Where are you sourcing your motor from..?

Support the sponsors that support the club!

Unique Mits Bits has motors available..
MitsFix most likely has them available too..

SuFz :ninja:

Problem is the 4 spd is an eco-box, not really designed for performance. Yes it will cope and will be an improvement, but if you're running a 380 motor to gain performance, then the next logical thing is to go 5spd auto/manual also.

I know it suddenly doubles the cost though, I'm going through the exact same predicament myself.

Does the trip computer still report fuel consumption properley? Ie L/100km, fuel used and range?

Does the trip computer still report fuel consumption properley? Ie L/100km, fuel used and range?

It won't if you change injectors

It won't if you change injectors

Will it be out by a little? Or alot? Will it always be out by the same? Just asking cus if you knew how much you could still use it to have an idea

Im probably gunna do the conversio myself but how much would be a good estimate of install price from a shop?

Will it be out by a little? Or alot? Will it always be out by the same? Just asking cus if you knew how much you could still use it to have an idea
It depends on how big the size change is, as the trip computer monitors the signal from one of the injectors (#2 IIRC) and is calibrated to the fuel flow. 6G75 injectors have been measured to flow almost exactly the same as the 6G74 injectors, so that change has little effect.

The trip computer doesn't properly allow for injector latency at very short pulse widths, so if the engine spends a lot of time idling the tendency is to report much higher consumption than actually occurs.

If you do the 380 motor swap then you might find that the 4 speed is a better option. They handle torque a bit better and are easier (cheaper) to replace when you blow it up (note when, not if).

Manual conversion complicates things further, but I ruled out doing a 5 speed auto conversion on mine because everything is so damn different.

I would assume that a 3.8L 4 speed would still be slower than a stock 3.5L 5 speed auto?

Nah the extra cog does help but you build up a fair bit of torque through the rev range. The 4 speed is geared ok for the 3.8. It won't be as quick but it will be twice as reliable and a tenth the cost to replace.

I would assume that a 3.8L 4 speed would still be slower than a stock 3.5L 5 speed auto?

After driving my TE with 380 motor + 4 speed I can tell you now it's no slouch, and is faster than my 380 hands down.
It's been awhile since I've driven my old TJ with 3.5L/5spd auto, but I'd say it'd be pretty close, too hard to tell from memory.

The 4 speed matches up to the 380 motor really well, taking off in 1st gear pushes you right back and it feels very quick, much quicker than I was expecting.

4sp auto with 3.8 will be slightly quicker than 5sp auto 3.5.

4sp auto with 3.8 will be slightly quicker than 5sp auto 3.5.
Why is that? I always thought the 4 speed was more fuel efficiently design where the 5 speed auto was more of a sporty design?
But the 4 speed can hit 150 in 2nd ;)

The 4sp are no better on fuel then a 5sp. Probably worse.

Looking at the official fuel consumption figures the 4sp is better on fuel by about 0.5l per 100km as it has higher gearing.

I think around town the 5 speed should be better on fuel as the engine doesn't have to work as hard accelerating considering the shorter ratios.
Highway driving it seems the 4 speed uses a few hundred rpm less so it seems natural it would use less fuel.

HI,

Been reading this thread as I'm intending to drop a 3.8l into my manual TH magna Sports.

Originally I was going to just get the timing belt changed and a major service done. But for a few more dollars it seems logical to get the 3.8 put in.

As I've already taken up too much of the Mitsfix guys time talking with them about my questions, I thought I'd ask a couple here (I would like to say at this point I'm mechanically inept, which is why my questions may seems stupid):

1. If I get the 3.8l in, is it absolutely necessary to put bigger brakes in?

2. Does putting the 3.8l in affect the ECU and do I need to get a new one or can the one in it be reprogrammed to meet the newer engines?

thanks

Icarius7

1. No but if you plan on driving it hard I would reccomend it.
2. The tune on your current ecu will generally work fine with the new engine, If you are worried ask mitsfix and he may be able to flash a better tune if your ecu is retuneable.

Icarus, get a tj manual ecu with a ralliart tune to start.

Later if you want a custom tune the tj is better option.

As for brakes if you can afford to swap in 380 motor, you should spend a little more and swap in 380 front brakes for safety sake.

As above, TJ ECU will go straight in, can be programmed with no immob and Ralliart Tune, can do both here.

As Brett stated, if you are doing the motor you really do need to do the bakes, some have done the conversions with std brakes but for the extra few $$ and perhaps a few more weeks saving up it is worth the swap. The std brakes will work BUT the bigger brakes will work longer

Would a good set of DBA slotted and pads be a good alternate to the 380 brakes?

No not at all. Slotted rotors do SFA on the street anyway, the main advantages are the thicker rotor not to mention over 20mm larger diameter and to add to this the twin spot callipers coupled with much larger pad area.

Would a good set of DBA slotted and pads be a good alternate to the 380 brakes?

Speaking on behalf of someone that went from 3.5 and standard brakes to 3.8 and 380 brakes (done my madmagna) 100% change the brakes, the difference between the 2 (especially with the extra engine power) is significant.

Just changing pads and rotors is nothing compared to the whole 380 brake set up

Ok :) wasn't aware that the difference was more then just rotor diameter.

I'm still running stock brakes and it hasn't been an issue for me, bigger and better brakes are a good idea but they are not essential, it all depends on what other have said about the $$$$

Just out of curiosity, how much would one be looking at to drop a 380 engine into a 3rd Gen?? I have a TH if that makes any difference...

Just out of curiosity, how much would one be looking at to drop a 380 engine into a 3rd Gen?? I have a TH if that makes any difference...

All costs together depending if you diy or get a mech to do iy. 2000-4000. There are too many variables

How much at Mitsfix, drive in drive out?

Depends how many kms is on the engine you get, prices are very fair though. Shoot him a pm

ok, thanks guys. wouldn't be a diy job for me. would get a pro to do it. I was just wondering as I might have to look for a new motor in the next year or so.

How much at Mitsfix, drive in drive out?

You really need to ask him as it depends greatly on the car being fitted to.

I can vouch that the work is top notch, you'd swear it was factory fitted.

How much at Mitsfix, drive in drive out?
Why don't you e-mail or phone Mits-fix?

how does the 3.8 run when used on a standard tj tune? how much is gained by a raliart tune? obviously the best option is a custom 98RON tune but is costly and hard to find someone in sydney to d it.

Initially I ran a ralliart tune when i did mine, which was ok, but it was a little rough around the edges.
Custom tune smoothed it out and probably added a modest (not really enough to notice) gain in power. Noticed the smoothness straight away though.

Really for a few hundred dollars it is well spent, even if you wait a month or two afterwards to save for it.

how does the 3.8 run when used on a standard tj tune? how much is gained by a raliart tune? obviously the best option is a custom 98RON tune but is costly and hard to find someone in sydney to d it.

You actually have the best tuners available in sydney and lots of choice. Merlin is around and he has done heaps of magnas, pulse racing in menai do magnas and hitman tuning also do magnas.

what would the approx price be on a custom tune?

400-800 depending where you go

$400 is ok $800 is a bit much. how would steve knight in adelaide go doing a postal tune if told a 3.8 conversion with high flow 2 1/2 system and extractors? cost and performance wise?
i have read a bit before about the 3.8 conversion but never seen anything bou tuning required or tuning benifits.

When you do the conversion id just use the ralliart tune, but if you put the 3.8 intake manifold on and a cam or something, then I would get it tuned. Skr can do postal tunes which are cheaper then a dyno tune but youll never get as good a result. Best bet is to use the ralliart tune and if needbe get a road tune or dyno tune done in sydney.

Mast, postal tune I would not recommend as different engines will all do better with slightly different tune to suit.

At first, once conversion is done, a ralliart tune will give ok results (159.7kw in my wagon was with ralliart tune).
When you go a custom tune, as Hayden says merlin is well respected and prices quite low.

In my opinion there is not a lot of extra power from a custom tune on the 3.8, but it will definately run smoother, and hopefully safer.

Dave (merlin) is your man, I don't think there is anyone who knows Mitsubishi ecus better than him in Australia.

He charges fraction of a cost of any tuning shop.

Where can we find/contact Merlin?

i also would like to know where to find / contact this merlin? maybe king arthur knows?