So my ever reliable magna refuses to start leaving me stranded 4kms from home.

I can hear it trying to start. Engine shaking, fuel pump priming but no matter how many times it turns over it will.not start.

The theew potential causes I thought of was either battery, starter motor or immobiliser.

First thing I did was obviously to jump start it - no luck. Althouh it is manual - kick starting it is very difficult and this car park is small.
The battery is in pretty average condition. Drained many times and leaking acid however up until now, with a bit of a charge it would start. Walked home with the battery and put it on charge for a good 15hours. Reconnected it this morning and the engine would turn over with it. Not 100% sold that its the battery that's the problem just yet.

I've taped the starter motor a good few times with a hammer. Still no luck.

Trying to work out if its an immobiliser issue I've removed all the drivers side panelling and checked the connections. All looks fine. From what I gather if it was an immobiliser issue then the engine would start but quickly turn off afterwards

I was thinking it might be the fuel pump (been Having some power loss issues on petrol recently). Without replacing the pump, how do I check this?

Also how do I check if the ignition is firing?

Appreciate any and every help. I just want to get my car home!! :(

Tow truck.

Test the spark - pull a spark plug cable out, put an old plug in, rest it on the rocker cover and crank the engine. Should get a spark.

Ok
Does it crank.....
Yes no issue with starter
No, starter or Ig switch issue

Crank but no fire
Injector pulse....
yes immob is fine
No....immob, CAS, ecu etc etc

Spark
Yes....coil, CAS, Ig system fine
No, coil, CAS, dist, module etc

Fuel
Pressure and flow


This is the basic flow for fault finding only other is of course has timing belt jumped or broken, if broken will not spark anyway

Thanks heaps for that Mal and Max. Very much appreciated. You guys are legends!

I'm going to go down the list until I can hopefully find the culprit. It's still stuck at the local shopping centre and I don't feel like calling a tow truck for a 3km tow. Might just flat tow it if anything.

Car does crank - I can hear trying to start so at least I can rule out the starter motor.

Next will be the check the injector pulse. I'm guessing it involves using a multimeter against one of the injector wires to see if its getting a pulse of power? Or is there somewhere on the engine I should test for a injector pulse?

I'll also check for a spark using Max's method.

I'm wondering if the fuel pump has carked it. I've been having issues with performance low in the rev range (under 3500rpm) only on petrol so I wondered if something was wrong in the fuel line. Maybe the pump has finally kicked it. How can I test if its working fine?

I don't believe the timing belt has snapped. It was replaced at 100,000km (3years ago) with a Dayco belt and I've done 60,000kms since then. Can't see why it would snap. Plus the car is cranking and the starter motor is kicking the flywheel.

Can confirm that the car is sparking. Got a good blue spark when cranking it. Dizzy was removed and there's no sign of rust or anything broken.

I did check for an injector pulse by checking a change in voltage on the injector lead when the engine was cranking, as well as checking the resistance on Injector No.1. Voltage spiked at 4v and the resistance was 20 Kohm.

Does that mean the immobiliser is fine? I would've thought that if the immobiliser was preventing the car from starting that it'd have no electronic pulse on the injectors. I did do a test where I removed the ring that goes around the ignition barrel and of course I had the same result where the car wouldn't start but didn't use a multimeter to check the voltages. I'm still wondering if the immobiliser isn't to blame here because I can't see anything else short of a broken fuel pump being the culprit.

The fuel filter has never been replaced since factory but I highly doubt it'd completely cut fuel supply. I did try to remove it in the carpark today but its stuck on tight. I'll need to try and home where I have better tools.

How would I test for any fuel related issues? Remove the fuel line at the engine and see if fuel is being pumped out?

if you can get a helper, then remove the rear seat and the fuel pump cover plate. then listen for the pump when ignition is turned on then during and shortly after cranking. if it doesnt make any noise, then while cranking tap (not too hard) the exposed fuel tank with a hammer or mallet. it should start pumping, if so then get a new pump. if it doesnt pump then check for power/earth on the two thickest wires. if there is no power then, i'd be looking to the fuel pump relay (in the area below the ashtray), this circuit is not individually fused but is protected by a main fusible link, that if blown would mean not ignition or crank.

Immob cuts injector pulse. Need a noid light to test

Check fuel flow

Fantastic! Thanks for the help!

I'll definitely try and get myself a noid light to test the injector pulse. Available from local auto part retailers? From a google search it seems you can make one yourself.

I might also have anouther way to check the fuel pump/system is the cause by circumvating it using lpg to start the engine - problem is that my closed loop system starts on petrol and switches over to lpg. I'll contact my installer tomorrow to see if there's a way to make the car start on lpg.

if there's a way to make the car start on lpg.

does you lpg switch look similar to this:
http://www.autolpg.ie/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/autolpg-swith-button.jpg
if so then you switch ignition on and then hold the centre button whilst cranking

Unfortunately not Ash. I've got a mixer system and the switch is a typical 2-way tactile one. I have access to much of the wiring so I'll probably be able to wire it to work on lpg only. I've done the opposite with making it work on petrol only in the past.

Still trying to get my hands on a noid light. SupercheapAuto (as expected) have no idea what that tool is. Will need to call burson/repco to see if they have any and are willing to hire it out.

No time last night to check the fuel pump. Will try tomorrow. What exactly do you tap in the tank to get the pump working?

Try just smacking the bottom of the fuel tank with a hammer works

Thanks the advice everyone - I can confirm that the fuel pump does make a noise during and after cranking like I'd expect it too.

So running down the list:
- It does crank - so starter motor is fine
- It does spark
- Fuel pump works. Filter is old (160,000km) but doubt it's the problem. Do have replacement and will attempt to replace.

Which leaves the immobiliser as the potential cause.

I've taken off the plastic around the key barrel to inspect the coil that goes over the barrel. It looks fine and makes contact with the ignition barrel. Wiring looks good too. Can I use any old coil from anouther magna?

Other than disabling the immobiliser or replacing the bem (plus ecu & keys) - how else can I fix the immobiliser, or at least isolate what part of the immob is causing the issue?

You could stop guessing and just ask the ECU what is wrong with the car? You know, check the error codes?

Takes five minutes and takes you straight to the problem. Usually.

Posted this before, but anyway . . .

Mitsubishi Diagnostic Trouble Code Retrieval
Magna, Verada, TE-TJ, KE-KJ 1996-2004
Manual or Automatic Transmission V6 3.0 & 3.5

Engine Codes:
The Two Digit Engine Fault Codes are displayed as flashes of the Check Engine Lamp.
There is an initial pause of 3 Seconds followed by the Code.
Long Flashes (1.5 Seconds) represent the Tens.
Short Flashes (0.5 Seconds) represent the Units.
A 2 Second Pause separates the Tens and Units.
If more than one Code is in Memory, they will be displayed in sequence.
If No Codes are present, continuous 0.5 Second Flashes will be displayed.

Transmission Codes (Auto):
The Two Digit Transmission Fault Codes are displayed as flashes of the Neutral "N"
Lamp in the Dash. If a Fault develops with the Transmission, the "N" Lamp will flash.
Flashes at 2Hz, (2 Flashes/Second) indicate that the Transmission has overheated.
Flashes at 1Hz, (1 Flash/Second) indicate that a Fault Code is in Memory.

Fault Code Extraction
1. Switch Ignition ON.
2. Ground Terminal 1 on the Diagnostic Connector.
3. Read Engine Codes as Flashes of the Check Engine Lamp.
4. Read Transmission Codes as Flashes of the Neutral "N" Lamp in the Dash.

Mitsubishi DTC’s (Diagnostic Trouble Codes)
11 Oxygen Sensor
12 Air Flow Sensor
13 Intake Air Temperature Sensor
14 Throttle Position Sensor
21 Engine Coolant Temperature Sensor
22 Crank Angle Sensor
23 Top Dead Centre (TDC) Sensor
24 Vehicle Speed Sensor
25 Barometric Air Pressure Sensor
36 Ignition Timing Circuit
41 Fuel Injectors
44 Ignition Circuit
52 Ignition Circuit
53 Ignition Circuit
54 Immobiliser System
61 Automatic Transmission Communication PCM Failure




Fault Code Table (Automatic Transmission)
11 Throttle Position Sensor - Sensor Shorted or Disconnected
12 Throttle Position Sensor - Sensor Disconnected
14 Throttle Position Sensor - Sensor Adjustment Incorrect
15 Transmission Fluid Temperature Sensor - Sensor Disconnected
21 Crank Angle Sensor - Sensor Disconnected
22 Auto Transmission Pulse Generator `A' (Input Shaft Speed Sensor)
Sensor Shorted or Disconnected
23 Auto Transmission Pulse Generator `B' (Output Shaft Speed Sensor)
Sensor Shorted or Disconnected
26 Brake Lamp Switch - Switch Shorted
31 Auto Transmission Low/Reverse Solenoid - Solenoid Shorted or Disconnected
32 Auto Transmission Underdrive Solenoid - Solenoid Shorted or Disconnected
33 Auto Transmission Second Solenoid - Solenoid Shorted or Disconnected
34 Auto Transmission Overdrive Solenoid - Solenoid Shorted or Disconnected
36 Auto Transmission Damper Clutch Control Solenoid - Solenoid Shorted or Disconnected
41 First Shift - Shift not perfect
42 Second Shift - Shift not perfect
43 Third Shift - Shift not perfect
44 Fourth Shift - Shift not perfect
46 Reverse Shift - Shift not perfect
51 Engine ECM Communication Error
52 Damper Clutch Control Solenoid Malfunction
54 Auto Trans Control Relay Ground Shorted or Disconnected
55 Auto Trans Control Relay Contact Points melted or sticking
56 N Range Lamp System Shorted to Ground
71 Auto Trans ECM Malfunction

To Erase Codes:
Turn the ignition switch OFF.
Disconnect the negative battery cable from the battery terminal for 20 seconds or more and then reconnect it.

Oh for crying out loud, while may be immob forget that and do a bloody fuel pressure and flow test

The info above is useless unless there is an issue that is logged, pressure and flow are not.

So you can hear the pump but you have a 160km old fuel filter, what if the filter has collapsed and has blocked fuel flow, what if you have picked up bad fuel.

Please for the sake of our same itty, come to my workshop and borrow a bloody noid light and test the injectors, they only cost a few bucks from reptiles or burson but if you can't find one borrow one.

Take off the fuel line, put hose in an appropriate container and test for flow and pressure, do this carefully of course but needs to be done.

Yes could be immob so why not go to the shop, get a can of start you bastard or similar, spray some into the TB and hit the key, if it fires for a second then you know is either fuel issue r injector issue

Max - I know about how to get the codes and read them. I was under the impression that you need a CEL to get a reading.

Yes, the fuel filter is old, but I didn't think it could completely stop flow. I would've thought that'd be a pretty extreme case.
I'll replace it anyway because it's only filter I haven't yet replaced. Did try in the car park with my tools but it wouldn't budge.

I've tried Supercheap Auto for the noid light, but they were so confused about what exactly that tool is. Useless! Repco/Bursons are mostly open during the day and when I work.

Didn't realise that checking the fuel pressure and flow could be as easy as removing the fuel line and shoving it into a container. Seems simple enough to work but didn't cross my mind.

And i'll try that last trick with a can of 'Start you bastard'. Never knew about that product until now.

Cheers for the help!! Will update soon on how I go and hopefully can better isolate this issue.

Max - I know about how to get the codes and read them. I was under the impression that you need a CEL to get a reading.


If it is an intermittent problem the CEL may flash when it occurs and then go off, but the error will still be recorded in the ECU. That's my understanding anyway. If you have no error codes in the ECU it will rule out a lot of things.

I was troubleshooting a similar problem on a Lancer and reading the code took me straight to the problem after spending hours guessing and checking. The car would start normally, then throw a quick CEL (on and off) and run rough after a minute or two of idling, then when switched off it would refuse to start again. It was a dead cam angle sensor, a quick and cheap fix. I'm just trying to save you time and grief in case its a 22 or 23, but carry on as you were.

as said before i'd be making sure your getting fuel too. you are confirming you have the other essentials to make it start.


I've got a mixer system and the switch is a typical 2-way tactile one. I have access to much of the wiring so I'll probably be able to wire it to work on lpg only. I've done the opposite with making it work on petrol only in the past.

also have you checked all the fuses on the lpg looms?
could be just a dead fuse stopping the show.

even if it does fire on start ya bastard it might be enough to get it to fire and switch over to lpg.

i have a mixer ring setup on mine and it will start cold on lpg (i only do it when i'm low on petrol).

With all the starting you are doing, (well trying to), it might be worth getting a Multi-meter across the battery as you crank it over...
You did mention it was an old battery.... Charging it is pointless if it has lost a cell...

Not a great idea but can you try starting directly on gas?

Mine stopped starting on Petrol so I used to just crank the bastard on gas till it started it took a while when cold but it always started, so just crank it till it starts.

I've already stated before that my lpg system is a closed loop system that starts on petrol and then switches to lpg once the car starts. Theres only one fuse in the system and if it was busted then the lpg computer would not even turn on


I've contacted the installer on how to make the car start on lpg so Ill test that out after I do a simple fuel flow and pressure test.

Cars battery is definitely not dead, but cheers for the heads up. Battery is now brand new and was plced on charge for the last 24hours.

Anyway I've got a few things ill test for tomorrow to isolate the issue. Thanks everyone for your input and help.

Not sure what my system is but it would start on Petrol and automatically switch over until one day it didn't and now I do it manually via the switch.

I'd say your solenoid that switches between petrol and lpg was stuffed. Could even be the computer in the engine bay or your switch itself.

I need to wire 12v direct to the solenoid for it to permantely switch to lpg only.

Well for all those watching at home - good news! The car started yesterday.

The issue is either battery or fuel. I did put my new battery on a charge for 48hours so that could've been the issue, however it started when i removed the fuel line that connects the engine. I was checking if there was a blockage or not. The fuel that came out was slightly dirty (nothing top serious) so im wondering if that is the cause?

I will definitely be replacing the fuel filter, but wondering if i should clean out the tank and lines? What do you use to eash out the inside of a tank? I rememever when i removed the fuel pump that the bottom of the tank had a bit of black dirt on the bottom - wasn't very bad but there was a bit. So should I get rid of the fuel?

You have spent almost a week on getting this car going, but you still don't know if it's fuel or battery?

You say " it started when i removed the fuel line that connects the engine." Does that mean it ran without the engine getting any petrol? If so, it started on gas. (Do'h). Perhaps it wasn't starting because the engine was getting petrol and gas at the same time?

Tends to suggest the gas system is on full time - perhaps pull a spark plug and see if it's been trying to run very rich?

Fuel tank - remove tank (drain it first, dispose of grotty petrol safely or filter it and keep it for later), steam clean. Use compressed air to blow out fuel lines, perhaps remove filter first and then blow out the lines. New filter, fresh fuel, get gas system checked. If the car refuses to run when it's all together as before, unhook the fuel pump electrics and see if it runs on gas only.

No I've not spent a week trying to get it going. I don't need to write a journal, but like I've said before, I work inexcess of 50 hour weeks and haven't had much time to work on the car.

To me, the problem is not that clearcut.

The reason why I don't know if it is the battery or the fuel is because I put the new battery on charge, then 48 hours later hooked it up to the car, removed the fuel line and then wanted to crank the car to see the fuel flow. I should've tried to start the car (before removing the fuel line) and see if the fully charged battery would've made a difference.

Also the car starts on petrol and then switches to lpg, so it very much could've been the fuel left in the line and in the engine that made the car start, and then the computer would've quickly switched to lpg and it'd be running off that fuel.

I don't think the lpg system is on full time. I've tested in the past (removed power to petrol from the lpg computer) where I tried to get the car to start on lpg and it wouldn't. I need to physically supply the solenoid with 12v's of power for it to switch to lpg.

I'll remove the pump again and check out the tank. I'm replacing the fuel filter, will see if can get a bit of fuel to come out of the line and see the condition of it. Lpg system needs a service so I'll have them look over it.

QUOTE: "Also the car starts on petrol and then switches to lpg, so it very much could've been the fuel left in the line and in the engine that made the car start, and then the computer would've quickly switched to lpg and it'd be running off that fuel."

"Fuel left in the line" possibility is irrelevant, as soon as you disconnect the fuel line you have zero pressure in the rails and the injectors have nothing to squirt. Maybe fuel puddled in the intake manifold from your previous attempts to start it, or a leaking injector, or the LPG. (A minor point really.)

Anyhow, good luck tracking the problem down further.

I'm having the same issue, checked fuel, spark, compression good but cranks and no start. Pulled fault code 54 which is immobiliser. Coincidentally power door locks also stopped working. After i disconnected the fuel line to check for fuel, it started and ran for a few minutes. I swithed it off and tried a restart but no go. Ignition barrel antenna has continuity, broke that connection and rejoined it with jumper cables, still no go. Cleaned and remade BEM connections, no go. Next I will get to the ECU and check those connections. I did replace the fuel filter too.