Any transmission gurus out there? How can I get my TJ to shift quicker?

I'm using it in Dirt Circuit racing and use the tiptronic shift during a race. Its an AWD turbo running standard ECU plus 6 extra injectors controlled by a Haltec.

It may sound silly but a decent auto fluid flush and transmission cooler would help.. Keeping things cool and lubricated is bound to help the transmission be smoother and quicker.
Other than that I have no idea. Mal?

Keep it cool. If you're racing the car as an auto, the transmission is going to cop a beating. Like above, if you use a transmission cooler, then the box would be more responsive.

Yep, I have a trans cooler but not real big. I think I will look for a bigger one. What about the electronics? Can something be done there? I believe some autos change slow to make the ride more comfortable which of course I don't need. I've heard of solenoids being put in some transmissions?

Are you using the correct transmission oil?

I believe some autos change slow to make the ride more comfortable which of course I don't need.

ECU cuts the ignition advance during a shift and reads the gearbox input and output shaft sensors to give a smooth (and sometimes slow) shift. More to do with making the internals last as long as possible, avoiding shock loads etc. You could up the line pressure to speed up the clutch action, or get a TCU guru to change the synchronization gap between the input/output shaft sensors (if that is possible) but the gearbox will suffer and have a short and miserable life.

Of course, a manual gearbox would suit your application better.

Magna is not a race car. Simple.

What the OP wants has nothing to do with oils or cooling.

Ralliart autos have different shift points to the standard exec spec. The ecu in your car is also able to reflashed with different shift points which would suit your higher revving motor. I'm having the same problem as you, in that the auto shifts at the most stupidest of times and just as the car is pulling off it shifts up a gear and the power is lost.

Madmagna has done a manual conversion on an AWD and is able to replicate it for others. The hardest part is tracking down the parts needed.

Since he's racing I'm sure he's using the tiptronic and not letting the auto do it's own thing.
So it's not the RPM of the shift at question, but the physical time it takes to change gears and therefore the 'force' of the shift.

Upping internal hydraulic pressure sounds like a good avenue. I'm assuming that would be a box out & open up job though, so $ would start accumulating quickly, or are you a DIY kind of person?

Perhaps weigh up the costs of manual conversion ?? Are there any auto specialists near you? Have a look at drag racers and see where they get their auto boxes tricked out - the people that do that might have some ideas that they can share with you if the Magna's box is at all similar to your average V8's auto box.

How's the racing going?

I'm lead to believe that there is a "line pressure" adjustment which will affect the shifts (higher pressure -> harsher, more rapid shifts) however I would talk to an automatic transmission specialist before adjusting this as too much change in the line pressure seems likely to cause other problems (the guidance in the manual I have says "adjust to middle of specification range"). I know one member did this - don't think he's still active as he sold the car.

You also have to take account of the fact that the ECU controls this shifts, and the ECU has a non-zero reaction time so you will never get a consistently instant shift. This also in part derives from the inbuilt behaviour of the INVECS-II control software, which tries to juggle input from an number of sensors while checking parameter limits and trying to decide the best option to choose. While we might expect that tippy mode should do what it is told instantly, this isn't the way it is implemented for a number of reasons.

It might be there, but I'm yet to find any evidence that the ignition advance in 3rd gen Magna ECUs is retarded to "soften" shifts other than as a natural consequence of the ignition advance mapping following the engine revs & "load". I think this is in part due to the way the torque converter lockup operates during shifting. Unfortunately increasing engine output means the torque converter lockup parameters are no longer optimum, and so far the parameters that control this behaviour have eluded several investigators (same code in Evo 7 GT-A, and people have been looking there too!).

No matter which way you look at it, the gearbox isn't going to let you dump high horsepower and torque into its internal clutches in a fraction of a second, which is what you are trying to ask it to do. It can't absorb the energy involved in dropping a high revving engine down a few thousand rpm during a rapid gear shift. Recipe for a quick death.
The only rapid shift you will get is one you do yourself with an old fashioned manual gearbox, clutch and shifter.

It might be there, but I'm yet to find any evidence that the ignition advance in 3rd gen Magna ECUs is retarded to "soften" shifts other than as a natural consequence of the ignition advance mapping following the engine revs & "load".
What about this statement in the service manual, ignition system section:

When the automatic transmission shifts gears, ignition timing is retarded to reduce output torque and alleviate shock during shifting.
This is in the TJ/KJ manual. (Which btw I'm assuming covers my KL).
I assume this feature is part of the ECU.

No matter which way you look at it, the gearbox isn't going to let you dump high horsepower and torque into its internal clutches in a fraction of a second, which is what you are trying to ask it to do. It can't absorb the energy involved in dropping a high revving engine down a few thousand rpm during a rapid gear shift. Recipe for a quick death.
The only rapid shift you will get is one you do yourself with an old fashioned manual gearbox, clutch and shifter.

I don't think longevity is the issue here. It is more making use of the power that the gearbox is capable of.

AWD is not available in manual without significant modification.

I don't think longevity is the issue here. It is more making use of the power that the gearbox is capable of.

AWD is not available in manual without significant modification.

Just a minor point:

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSkqT1rXIwNQC9tCFymTqRY7foErJfYA YTRmUC5KH7NTnNQFyzsWg

This is a typical autobox clutch. Very much like a wet multiplate motorcycle clutch.
Changing gears involves one clutch releasing and another engaging. Imagine the load on such a clutch asking it to drop the revs of a souped up engine on full song by say 1,000 rpm in .5 of a second. Going to wear it out quick, if not destroy it.

Just my opinion really. lol

manual conversion might work out cheaper than the cost of tricking up the auto and repairing it when it fails from too much power. but it's all part of the fun if you do go that way.

I was trying to read more about this since my knowledge of Automatics is quite limited. Two threads jumped out at me -
1) a bit of a sales pitch on the process for some American RWD cars. Note that they say similar vehicles with FWD automatics can't be modded the same way. I am guessing the Magna falls into that category which explains why no one around here has knowledge of it.
Link: http://www.allpar.com/mopar/shift-kits.html

2) is someone that has modded their 350Z, so this is from a drivers perspective.
http://zclub.com.au/forums/index.php?/topic/2585-best-mod-ever-transgo-shift-kit-for-automatic-transmission-z-series/

an old friend of mine had a V8 Commondore ute which he had the auto trans modified. it shocked him while he was accelerating hard and crested a hill just as it shifted to 3rd and broke traction severely due to the hard shifting.

I suspect the Magna can't easily be converted/adjusted to shift quick & hard, but it's worth investigating.
I must say that I've given my Magna a lot of stick this past 30,000+ kms and I'm not convinced they are a strong box. My 3rd gear seems a little dodgy - it's slower to shift into, flares a little at times and doesn't engine brake as well as 4th or 2nd.

Look at the design of a front wheel drive auto box compared to a rear wheel drive and you will see what the problem is, in a word, it is COMPACT. Not much room for heavy duty clutch drums, pistons, plates etc. Remember too that autos are for LAZY people who drive sedately, grandpa spec. Treat a Magna box with respect and keep it full of clean oil, and it will last for decades. (except for the wavespring debacle, of course). Up the power and drive like you stole it, and all bets are off.

The shift characteristics of the transmission is primarily designed to not cost Mistubishi any money. The transmission could probably handle more power slash quicker shifts. I'd imagine the R&D for the transmission wasnt much different to the old videos I've seen of Holden testing the tri-matic auto - WOT shift drive to reverse, drive to reverse and so on. They find a breaking point and dial it back from there, then the bean counters come steaming in and tame things down even further.

Mitsubishi is a business, by setting up the car/transmission/engine in such a way it protects their bottom line. Bean counters over-rule the engineers at the end of the day.

The 51 series auto is the heavy duty variant, compared to the 42 series. It would be tough enough to take some extra grunt - remember guys we boast that the auto is lifted from the Evo. With the technology at hand, even in a magna, quicker shifts could be achieved without too much harshness.... but there'd be a limit and you'd have to rob Peter to pay Paul either with higher stall speeds or changes in the torque multiplication. Eventually, as you pushed things closer to the limit Mitsubishi found when they originally tested the gearbox, reliability would suffer.

As for why the box needs to shift quicker I'm a little lost. Both five speed auto Magnas I've owned shifted quick when driven in tippy mode. The four speed was also pretty quick also. It could be said I'm hard on transmissions to (downshifting like its a manual gearbox) but I compensate by having my transmission serviced regularly by a professional.

Have your transmission carefully inspected and serviced first, after that burn money trying to get it to shift like a twin clutch. When you achieve tangible results update as all, it would be good knowledge to share around. Good luck.

Go manual conversion. It was cheaper than what I thought it'd be when I enquired.

What about this statement in the service manual, ignition system section:


When the automatic transmission shifts gears, ignition timing is retarded to reduce output torque and alleviate shock during shifting.

This is in the TJ/KJ manual. (Which btw I'm assuming covers my KL).
I assume this feature is part of the ECU.

I'm lacking evidence that it functions in my TJ AWD (as in I haven't noticed it during logging, though I will look more closely in future), and I haven't yet found any references that cross between the engine and trans parts of the code that affect the ignition advance. However as I'm a long way from understanding all the code (and some of the code is quite convoluted) it quite likely could be there and I haven't found it yet.

I'm lacking evidence that it functions in my TJ AWD (as in I haven't noticed it during logging, though I will look more closely in future), and I haven't yet found any references that cross between the engine and trans parts of the code that affect the ignition advance. However as I'm a long way from understanding all the code (and some of the code is quite convoluted) it quite likely could be there and I haven't found it yet.

I've seen ignition advance changes, on gear changes, with my GTVi using Evoscan. I'll dig the logs up to confirm, but I believe it was mostly on WOT gear changes.

remember guys we boast that the auto is lifted from the Evo.
The Evo 7 GT-A was detuned compared to the Evo 7 - in particular torque seems to have been about 360nm compared to the manual's 385nm, which isn't much more than the stock 6G75 can muster. Suggests to me that longevity at higher outputs was considered an issue, even if only by "cardigans"...

I've seen ignition advance changes, on gear changes, with my GTVi using Evoscan. I'll dig the logs up to confirm, but I believe it was mostly on WOT gear changes.
If you're using the standard Evoscan parameter setup, you're only seeing the advance that comes from MUT request 06, which is the interpolated value from the main ignition advance map combined with EGR, IAT and coolant temp based compensations. The "corrected" ignition advance figure that is actually fed to the distributor can be logged via MUT request code 33.

If I can catch request 33's value dropping below request 06's value on shifts with a warm engine, I'll have something to chase... the times I've looked at this I've always had a higher value from 33 than 06... And I haven't done much logging at WOT at all...