hey all,

I hope someone can help me here, i went to start my 97 Magna tonight and it wouldn't turn over at all, turn the key and there is complete silence now. My lights and radio work fine, along with all interior accessories, i am stumped!? It has been temperamental before but it has never gone to completely nothing? I checked the battery indicator under the bonnet (little thing on the battery) and it still shows green which is meant to mean it has charge, all the connections are greased and clean too. Could it be the starter motor more than anything?

Hoping someone can answer this post for me :)

Hi there,

I do not own my Magna anymore but, your case may be the immobalizer is playing up.
This happened to me when I had my Magna, and if you see the rubber black ring around it? The mechanic removed it and my car could start again.

It could be the key entry issue, and it can play up.

I've experienced similar before. I think it's the solenoid on the starter motor at fault.

In my case, when I turn the key there is a single click noise from the engine bay, but the engine doesn't turn.

Apparently tapping the starter motor can get it to start. In an old car with this issue, being a manual I put it into 1st or 2nd gear, got the car moving a little and dropped the clutch. This turned the engine a little bit and then when I tried the key, it started perfectly.
When this happened in my wife's car a couple of weekends ago, that process didn't work because it's a bloody automatic :(
Managed to start it on the 20th attempt after I had pocked a long screwdriver at what I think was the flywheel through an access panel on the gearbox mounting face, below the engine block.
I'm not sure what was there, but I poked it and then tried the key and the engine started.

As above sounds like the starter motor (solenoid in particular).

Immob will not cause non crank, is either starter, ig switch or inhibitor switch

Mitchtbsa, was the car warm/hot before starting last night. That is, was it driven prior. Aging starter solenoids tends to stick when hot and wont engage. Had it happen lots of times in my old TP and a few times in my old KS. Always carried a small hammer and tapped it a few times while someone tried to start the car and it always started that way.

Well.....My Lancer and Magna on the other hand had key coding issues one day and decided not to start. Thought I was helping, guessed not.

NONE of these were anything to do with the starter or ignition by the way which I thought they were the obvious. So my post was valid and suggested that it could be an electrical fault.

Well.....My Lancer and Magna on the other hand had key coding issues one day and decided not to start. Thought I was helping, guessed not.

NONE of these were anything to do with the starter or ignition by the way which I thought they were the obvious. So my post was valid and suggested that it could be an electrical fault.

Not sure why so defensive when it was pointed out was not an immob issue

Reading the OP clearly states that the engine does not even turn over, no crank, just silence


I hope someone can help me here, i went to start my 97 Magna tonight and it wouldn't turn over at all, turn the key and there is complete silence now

OP, try getting under and giving the starter a few firm taps with a hammer or similar, often this will shake the dust from under the brushes and allow the starter to once again work

^ Not sure why you were so confindent that my theory isn't true since I encountered twice it wasn't the starter either. Is a suggestion to look into it. I wasn't implying that I am correct. There wasn't any harm looking if all else failed. You are on the other hand putting assumptions that this could not be the issue. bravo!

FYI I said THIS EXCATLY Happened on my magna and it didn't crank. RAC came in and found out it was an electrical fault. Again, I thought I was helping, guessed not. I probably leave AMC if this is how it continues to run. my 2 cents at least take people's comments and ask if unsure rather than jump at it and saying it cannot be it.

At no point did I say any of the post above were rubbish. I only pointed out what could be the issue when I gotten a similiar one.

When I read this thread, I had the SAME incident. And that is I can hear my radio, my lights can turn on but Engine wont start.
If this didn't happened, I wouldn't bother to post. I like Op to respond what happened in the end.

Cool it guys. Op said complete silence. So no started motor sound. If immob is dead or has issues then AFAIK the starter should still click.

^ I was fine, it feels like mr knows it all knows everything, just don't feel like stepping back to AMC for old time sake I guess.

I know in the OP you said that all connections were greased and clean so this probably isn't the cause, just thought I'd mention that a less than perfect battery terminal can have this effect. My old TN used to have these symptoms regularly, enough juice got through for all electrics to work but not enough to even click the solenoid. I was forever filing the inside of the terminals and eventually replaced them.

So how about putting a multimeter across the battery and seeing if the battery voltage stays up when trying to crank the engine?

I've had 2 batteries (over a long number of years) go open circuit on me, ok to run lights etc but when you try to start, zero volts and no click/engine turn over.

What we need is a flowchart to troubleshoot this in a logical sequence . . . us keyboard warriors can't see or touch the car, so conjecture rules the day. lol

I had previously driven it for about 40 minutes prior to this happening, just dead when i turn the key now!

So, either the solenoid is stuck open or the starter motor has seized. I doubt it is a battery issue as you mentioned before the little round window is showing green.
1. Get someone to start the car while you try and tap the solenoid (cylindrical thing next to the starter motor) with a little hammer or wrench.
2. If the car starts after a few taps then that is the issue and you'll need to carry a hammer/wrench with you all the time.
3. If the car does not start then give the starter motor a few taps like Mal (Madmagna) suggested.
4. If the car starts then the starter motor needs reconditioning. It may be a combination of both the solenoid and starter motor seizing up.
5. If the car still won't start then it MAY be a dead starter motor or solenoid. Time to take it to an auto electrician for a check up or take it to Mal.

So, either the solenoid is stuck open or the starter motor has seized. I doubt it is a battery issue as you mentioned before the little round window is showing green.
1. Get someone to start the car while you try and tap the solenoid (cylindrical thing next to the starter motor) with a little hammer or wrench.
2. If the car starts after a few taps then that is the issue and you'll need to carry a hammer/wrench with you all the time.
3. If the car does not start then give the starter motor a few taps like Mal (Madmagna) suggested.
4. If the car starts then the starter motor needs reconditioning. It may be a combination of both the solenoid and starter motor seizing up.
5. If the car still won't start then it MAY be a dead starter motor or solenoid. Time to take it to an auto electrician for a check up or take it to Mal.


Thanks Vlad, if you (or anyone reading) could give me a small detailed description of where i will find the started motor that would save me a heap of time as i cant seem to find it :\

Ill give all the above a little tap once i do and see what happens.

Thanks again guys, huge help!



Mitch

mitch. see your other post.

Search and read the other posts on starter motors. Worn brushes cause this as does a leaky front valve cover gasket that pours oil into the starter motor. A set of brushes might cost around $20. The Magna brushes are quite short compared to some other starter motors and in my experience only last about 100k km Often second hand starters have worn brushes as well.

The Magna brushes are quite short compared to some other starter motors and in my experience only last about 100k km
:eek2: my KH has done over 206,000 kms now. Are you saying that I'm way overdue for a dead starter motor?

The gf now drives it and I notice her timing with the turn of the ignition key and the firing of the engine is not too good and the starter often complains with screaming noises until she lets go. It never had that treatment with me, poor old girl.

No one in my family has ever had starter issues in any of the Magnas. All of which have gone over 200,000Km.

2nd gen starters are more likely to randomly die than 3rd gen ones. 3rd gen ones just get badly worn brushes which make starting a bit of effort. They rarely just refuse to move unless you punish them to within an inch of their life.

I'm in the process of getting quotes for a brand new or reconditioned starter motor and alternator. As your car hits about 200k which mine is not short of, it is a good time to replace these original parts so they don't leave you on the side of the road or stuck in the driveway on a cold morning.

Just a side note.

I'm in the process of getting quotes for a brand new or reconditioned starter motor and alternator. As your car hits about 200k which mine is not short of, it is a good time to replace these original parts so they don't leave you on the side of the road or stuck in the driveway on a cold morning.

New ones are $300 and up, recon ones are about half that but you need to hand yours over as trade ins.
Another option is to go to the wreckers and take them out of a car with 150,000 km or less on them, swap them over to see if they work, then keep your originals (if in good working order) as spares.

Actually this philosophy of replacing old parts on a scheduled basis seems pretty smart to me.
We could build a list of all those components that mean being stranded on the side of the road if they fail and then develop a lifecycle management plan to replace them before the expected end of life point.
These would be the components that fail without warning or which cannot be easily monitored by the owner or the service manager.

The manufacturers should publish the plans for us, rather than letting us suffer breakdowns on the side of the road whenever critical things eventually fail.

It seems to me that components fall into 3 main categories;
1. those that should last for the lifetime and therefore don't need monitoring or replacement normally,
2. those that will fail in a known timeframe but which cannot be monitored or tested easily and
3. those which are part of normal monitoring and maintenance.

We only seem to cover the last category with the regular servicing.
The second category seems to be the problem. I wonder how many components are in it that would cause the vehicle to be undrivable if they failed?

I wonder how many components are in it that would cause the vehicle to be undrivable if they failed?

Lots and lots and lots.
Solution 1: Keep a shed full of spare components. Most of them will be thrown out when you sell the car in 5 years time.
Solution 2: Carry a phone and cash to pay for a tow truck when you go out. Have a spare car handy to go hunting for a part when you REALLY need one.

#2 works for me. lol

Lots and lots and lots.
Solution 1: Keep a shed full of spare components. Most of them will be thrown out when you sell the car in 5 years time.
Solution 2: Carry a phone and cash to pay for a tow truck when you go out. Have a spare car handy to go hunting for a part when you REALLY need one.

#2 works for me. lol
Hehe, sure the tow truck is the reactive, after the event, solution, but still not very convenient!
But I just wonder about how many components we're talking about. Think about it, don't most components wear slowly with warning signs? If ppl chose to ignore them then that's their problem, but it's the components that fail without any warning AND have an expected lifetime less than the life of the car AND that are not subject to the usual monitoring.
So starter motors, alternators, fuel pumps, pulleys, etc. How many of those type can leave you stranded without warning?
I don't think it's going to be hundreds.

Remember, a lot of stuff is checked during service, and I'm not including those fir that reason. I'm not talking about unusual failures, but expected failures.

Actually this philosophy of replacing old parts on a scheduled basis seems pretty smart to me.
We could build a list of all those components that mean being stranded on the side of the road if they fail and then develop a lifecycle management plan to replace them before the expected end of life point.
These would be the components that fail without warning or which cannot be easily monitored by the owner or the service manager.

The manufacturers should publish the plans for us, rather than letting us suffer breakdowns on the side of the road whenever critical things eventually fail.

It seems to me that components fall into 3 main categories;
1. those that should last for the lifetime and therefore don't need monitoring or replacement normally,
2. those that will fail in a known timeframe but which cannot be monitored or tested easily and
3. those which are part of normal monitoring and maintenance.

We only seem to cover the last category with the regular servicing.
The second category seems to be the problem. I wonder how many components are in it that would cause the vehicle to be undrivable if they failed?

#2 will scare off the majority of buyers.

#2 will scare off the majority of buyers.
Oh yeah, it would be challenging for the manufacturers lol
But if they would only see it as another point of difference and a selling point...

So starter motors, alternators, fuel pumps, pulleys, etc. How many of those type can leave you stranded without warning?
[/QUOTE]

Add cam belt, ECU to that list.
And a battery going open circuit suddenly.
And a major fuse blowing when you don't have a spare.
4 flat tyres all at once.

I don't suppose crashing, or being caught in a flash flood/bushfire, or meteor strike would make the list?

ADVICE: Stress less! Don't worry, be happy! Sh#t happens, deal with it when it does. (More cliches available on request. lol)

alternators do generally give you warnings on the dash with various warning lights either turning on or flashing. Batteries on the other hand can go without notice. I had two go like that. Drive home from work. Stop to pick up kids/food (takes around 5 minutes). Start the car but it won't start. Battery is completely dead and window on battery is clear.

So starter motors, alternators, fuel pumps, pulleys, etc. How many of those type can leave you stranded without warning?

Add cam belt, ECU to that list.
And a battery going open circuit suddenly.
And a major fuse blowing when you don't have a spare.
4 flat tyres all at once.

I don't suppose crashing, or being caught in a flash flood/bushfire, or meteor strike would make the list?

ADVICE: Stress less! Don't worry, be happy! Sh#t happens, deal with it when it does. (More cliches available on request. lol)
I agree, don't stress! But I don't think you're quite getting what my idea is about.

alternators do generally give you warnings on the dash with various warning lights either turning on or flashing. Batteries on the other hand can go without notice. I had two go like that. Drive home from work. Stop to pick up kids/food (takes around 5 minutes). Start the car but it won't start. Battery is completely dead and window on battery is clear.
So anything that gives warning signs wouldn't need to be on the list. Simple monitoring should detect those.

Ok, this has gone so far off track is not even worth cleaning it up

OP
There can be several reasons, bad connection, starter, inhibitor switch or ig switch, all are easy to test by checking for power to the starter exciter wire, if no power is not the starter, if power then starter. Simple really

As for life of these parts, I have customers with over 400k on the cars and still all original starters and alternators fitted, others with 90k and have had one or the other go. Is pot luck and replacing for the sake of it is false economy

/closed is way too off topic