Hey Guys and Girls,

Finally found out what my problem was, fixed that, got her dynoed and this is the result. Hope this helps out the people wanting to go the N/A path. Ill keep updated as i progress.

Mitsubishi TH Magna Sports 4 Speed Automatic

Standard
At the Flywheel = 147kw/190hp
ATW = 112kw/145hp

Exhaust Mods
At the Flywheel ~ 164kw/208hp
Torque at the Hubs = 230nm
ATH = 125kw/160hp
1/4 Mile = 16.095 (15.2 degrees)

Engine Mods Stage 1
At the Flywheel ~ 175kw/225hp
Torque at the Hubs = 247.09nm
ATH = 134.14kw/174hp
1/4 Mile = 15.521 (29.0 Degrees)

Engine Mods Stage 2
At the Flywheel: Not Complete
ATW= 146.28kw / 286.60 nm
At the flywheel ~ 190 HP
1/4 mile = unknown


Engine Mods Stage 3
At the Flywheel: Not Complete
ATW: Not Complete

Exhaust Modifications:
Pacemaker Extractors/ Hi flow Cat/ Straight through Muffler/ K & N panel filter

Stage1:
Transmission Cooler/ High Flowed 65mm TB/ Thermo Block Gasket kit/ Sard FPR Set at 40 psi/ Haltech Miniceptor/ K&N Pod filter

Stage 2:
Intake Plenum (not complete)/ Stage 2 Cams + Cam gears

Stage 3:
Upgrade pistons/ Manual Conversion

ATH = At the Hubs

Page 11: A couple happy snaps

Page 16: Stage 1 1/4 mile details

Page 16: More happy snaps

Page 31: Dyno Sheets

Been told the Adjustable Eclipse cam gears fit the 3.5L SOHC.
Ordered mine over ebay US and saved almost HALF of what it was to purcahse them in australia.
exchange rate ftw!

I hope your torque at the flywheel isnt 230nm as being a TH it should be 300nm stock

As it's I'm hoping at the wheels, you better not change tyres or pressures during your mods as the torque at the wheels will change accordingly

assuming that your power train loss is linear, you are understating your flywheel power after the exhaust mods by about 4kw. should be 164kw.

on a side note, I'm impressed by your power train loss (or lack thereof). you're getting over 76% (only 24% loss) of your flywheel power at the wheels!! :shock:

that's as good as some manuals! :thumbsup:

cheers,
.wook

ill have to check with the issue with the torque, but for the rest of it i was pritty happy with the car, it had a noticeable difference, well i spose i would think that after the way she has been running. anyways to state the obvious = means accurate, ~ means approxmate. i hope this helps anyone who wants to do some modifications to there car.

thats a good power figure for a practically stock engine

interested to know what you get when you go to stage 3!

good stuff

im very impressed by the power increase with the exhaust setup

keep the updates. and yea, i really wanna see what the manual difference is.

once u finishd ur mods you should be proof that its less expensive to mod NA than to get the sprintex super charger ...u have 7 k to play with lol

once u finishd ur mods you should be proof that its less expensive to mod NA than to get the sprintex super charger ...u have 7 k to play with lol

true, you can get some nice figures out of N/A.

Nothing like a free spinning engine for a bit of fun.

But for $7,000 can you get a N/A to >420nM and 225kw without increasing CR?

awesome stuff mike, should be good to see how the other mods go :)

also for the others, bear in mind its a hub dyno, may have some effect on drivetrain loss (havent read into it, but i know theyre different to rollers)... main point is seeing the power increases, not what the actual power figure is :)

']Been told the Adjustable Eclipse cam gears fit the 3.5L SOHC.
Ordered mine over ebay US and saved almost HALF of what it was to purcahse them in australia.
exchange rate ftw!
got a link?

got a link?
To the cam gears i got or for the eclipse ones?

yeah that link for the cam gears please

One of them;
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/FIDANZA-961334-Mitsubishi-300-GT-3-0L-DOHC-Cam-Gears-4_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33614QQihZ020QQitemZ3 00157116573QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWD1V

The car is driving great, damn that traction control :cool:

All i need to do is save soome more money up for the rest of the mods, which may take a while because of the recent glitches:cry: Anyways it was nothing major just a few seals, which took a long time to fix, which cost a bit of money. plus dynoes. anyways pleased with the result. i am very happy. dunno about that torque though.

Thanx for all your support!!!

Mike

awesome stuff mike, should be good to see how the other mods go :)

also for the others, bear in mind its a hub dyno, may have some effect on drivetrain loss (havent read into it, but i know theyre different to rollers)... main point is seeing the power increases, not what the actual power figure is :)

AFAIK they read higher h.p on a roller dyno and have less drivetrain loss. keep up the modding, cams are a great extra;)

[QUOTE=lenda]


Stage1:
Transmission Cooler/ High Flowed 65mm TB/ Thermo Block Gasket kit/ Sard FPR Set at 40 psi/ Haltech Miniceptor/ K&N Pod filter

excuse my ignorence but what is sard fpr

These threads are awesome :)

Stage1:
Transmission Cooler/ High Flowed 65mm TB/ Thermo Block Gasket kit/ Sard FPR Set at 40 psi/ Haltech Miniceptor/ K&N Pod filter

excuse my ignorence but what is sard fpr
Its a common misconception amungst people who have no idea about modding cars. Plus it comes with a sticker for his shopping list.

Now instead of just rubishing this 14 year old on school holidays, ill explain why im rubbishing him.

Nah bugger it.

excuse my ignorence but what is sard fpr

Fuel Pressure Regulator

Doesnt make a huge difference, but it is a good support mode for later on, is good to have if car needs extra petrol lol, Dave suggested it, plus its good bling lol, anyways it was handy to have when the car was running lean, so i was able to make it driveable.

mike

when you get the camshafts and cam gears you should port and polish and balance at the same time and what about bigger injectors?

when you get the camshafts and cam gears you should port and polish and balance at the same time and what about bigger injectors?

What would the port and polish do to my performance, and would this be necassary, the same goes with the larger injectors?

thanx mike

What would the port and polish do to my performance, and would this be necassary, the same goes with the larger injectors?

thanx mike

not necessary and the injectors will be fine unless you are putting in some serious camshafts.

With a port n polish youd be able to work out some good specs for cams and would make alot more gains but not really necessary if its only for a mild cam.

im only going to go for stage 1 or stage 2

have you thought about raising the compression ratio? im looking at doing this 9.6:1 im wanting to get to max before i need to run it on premium petrol, even tho i do anyway

have you thought about raising the compression ratio? im looking at doing this 9.6:1 im wanting to get to max before i need to run it on premium petrol, even tho i do anyway


Go off the shelf 10.5:1 forgies with upto 30 or 40 thou oversize from either, wiseco, CP, aries. Cheaper than customs, unless you know someone that is.

Any suggestion for what grind i should get with the cams. I want something for everyday driving, yet i also want as much power as i can get with out getting lumpy, if you know what i mean. forged pistons, yes thats on the table, but im not sure how far I want to go, so ill see how the car feels after i have done the next stage of mods.

thanx guys and girls

mike

In that case you might want to look at getting a similar grind as to the ralliart cams, that said you just might wonna buy a set of ralliart cams so you have your old ones to return it to stock when you sell the car.

Good to see someone doing the mods and keeping track of what gains are to be had from each.

i was thinking getting tighe cams, they have told me something like 1200 or there abouts for any grind i want. so that could be a thing i can look into. there is also the decision of rpw cams, probably stage 1 or stage 2 cams from them. anyways suggestions are welcome. thanx
mike

i was thinking getting tighe cams, they have told me something like 1200 or there abouts for any grind i want. so that could be a thing i can look into. there is also the decision of rpw cams, probably stage 1 or stage 2 cams from them. anyways suggestions are welcome. thanx
mike
contact dave tell him what you want im sure he could tell you which to go with better then any of us could

i was thinking getting tighe cams, they have told me something like 1200 or there abouts for any grind i want. so that could be a thing i can look into. there is also the decision of rpw cams, probably stage 1 or stage 2 cams from them. anyways suggestions are welcome. thanx
mike

AFAIK Tighe do them for RPW. Correct me if i'm wrong. Having an auto you might wanna bring the manual conversion to stage 2 mods cos, anything more than stage 1 cams you may find the idle too lumpy. A conversion will release a heap of ponies and you will have a bit more time to save and do something nasty to your engine!

anything more than stage 1 cams you may find the idle too lumpy.

thats a desirable thing though.:cool:

Also yeah id speak to people who make cams about dimensions. Theyll know a whole lot more than anyone else.

Look at getting your orginals reground, $150 a cam +$50 nitriding for a hardened surface

Look at getting your orginals reground, $150 a cam +$50 nitriding for a hardened surface


I would neva eva eva eva eva eva eva get my cams reground. Only heard baaaad things.

The hardening process is too inconsistent. You CAN get good one's but i wouldnt risk it.

I would neva eva eva eva eva eva eva get my cams reground. Only heard baaaad things.

The hardening process is too inconsistent. You CAN get good one's but i wouldnt risk it.

How do they get re-ground as such? do they move the lobes around or make the lobes fatter or shave some off? never understood how they do it

Tighe cams just suggested for me to get 265 duration. what type of gains should i be looking at does anyone know, and how would these compare to RPW, i think ill send them an email and find out what there durations are.

Edit: Just researching rpw cams and found this:

http://www.rpw.com.au/Products/Engine%20Components/Camshaft%20Specifications/camspec6g7s24.htm

Looks like its just above stage 2 :)

Thanks Mike

I talked to Dave (RPW) about Stage 2 cams and he didn't recommend them at all for auto applications, even tho I said mine would be fitted with an interceptor etc.

I'm guessing but I think his reasoning is that auto drivers won't use the extra grunt in the medium to high rev range and that all the exhaust/inlet work and interceptor is needed to make the cams worthwhile.

That said, if you go with the Stage 2 or the Tighe 265 I'll be watching with great interest.

well by then ill have exhaust and inlet work done and finished hopefully. plus i dont mind the lumpyness as some call it, one of my mates has a commo with lumpy cams, and i like it, feels like your riding in a V8.plus i might have a pritty competitive auto then. then later on find someone to do a manual conversion. hopefully be pulling low 14'2 high 13's by then.

keep your eye out this could get interesting.

well by then ill have exhaust and inlet work done and finished hopefully. plus i dont mind the lumpyness as some call it, one of my mates has a commo with lumpy cams, and i like it, feels like your riding in a V8.plus i might have a pritty competitive auto then. then later on find someone to do a manual conversion. hopefully be pulling low 14'2 high 13's by then.

keep your eye out this could get interesting.

commos have 1 cam....?? (im pretty sure there all pushrod??)
you wont be pulling those times ever with just those simple mods like cams...
your gonna need a snail or two to help you out there.

he told me he got after market cams, but knowing him, probly talking ****, or just an excuse:bowrofl: . anyways with all the mods spoken to a few people who have modified cars and they rekon i will get what i have previously said, as some stock manual get low 15's high 14's.

he told me he got after market cams, but knowing him, probly talking ****, or just an excuse:bowrofl: . anyways with all the mods spoken to a few people who have modified cars and they rekon i will get what i have previously said, as some stock manual get low 15's high 14's.

to chop a whole SECOND off your 1/4 time is going to need ALOT more power, like 200fwkw's of power.
Sports ran a 13.5 or something with the supercharged 3.5L...
Just saying man id take it down to the track now see what it does and then you'll now you'l need more then just a few cams to be doing 13's

']to chop a whole SECOND off your 1/4 time is going to need ALOT more power, like 200fwkw's of power.


Brendan's with cams made 207kwatw in a manual and that could probably net a mid 13.

Definately possible with the right planning.

Brendan's with cams made 207kwatw in a manual and that could probably net a mid 13.

Definately possible with the right planning.
Zactly my point. Will need to be making alot of power

i said i was hoping for high 13 to 14's. :bowrofl: Hope is all i need!!!im sure i can atleast get close to it.

what do you think about the suggested duration by tighe cams, would i get a good amount of torque, reponse and HP, without loosing driveability???

what do you think about the suggested duration by tighe cams, would i get a good amount of torque, reponse and HP, without loosing driveability???
With the limited knowledge I have, those cams won't come on till about 4,000 rpm. You won't lose any response, or shouldn't, but you will make good gains at the top end. Depending on their price, I'd go for it, just be careful of internals like pistons, etc. If they need to be done at the same time, do them. Don't leave them and have your engine blow up.

Just on the quarter mile times, Magtone ran like a 15.3 with stage 1 cams, extractors and an exhaust I think (I could be wrong) To get anywhere near even low 14's, you're gonna need a shed load of power and torque, and even then the auto box will be limiting, altho reading about that single turbo 4 speed auto, maybe not. I'm just saying, be realistic with your expectations, or even a bit pessimistic, that way it's hard to be disappointed.

yes, but with a manual conversion, wouldnt this lower the time significantly. Considering iv seen some people get low 15's high 14's with standard manuals, with just an exhaust. I think i might do some more research about these cams as well.

Edit: Regarding intake plenums, is there any other brands out there except rpw and ezboy for magnas? Anyways ill see how i go with the 1/4 mile times. doesnt worry me to much anyway. Is there any more mods people recomend for me to do or consider. I dont really want to open the engine up. eg: forged pistons, but im not saying its not on the table.

A manual conversion will net you better times down the strip and be more fun to drive. 13's? Unlikely... I think wheelspin/traction will be your downfall there.

A manual conversion will net you better times down the strip and be more fun to drive. 13's? Unlikely... I think wheelspin/traction will be your downfall there.

i still reckon do the conversion first. With commos they have different autos to magnas and can have more done to them. you only have to change the rear muffler to get a similar V8 sound from a car with a/m cams. A stage two cam will be too rough i would think for an auto. you will not crack mid 14's until you get a manual. My time was only 15.1 after cams and emanage and 15.3 before cams...maybe i cant drive but...$2k+ is a lot for .2 seconds. If ya dont go manual...get a plenum at least.

and no point cooling the auto box/modifying it, when its gonna be manual anyway.

you just know at some point dave will try to talk u into all sorts of strengthening the box, 'just because it cant wait for the conversion', and u'll end up spending extra just to keep the thing driving

i know you drive her as a daily, so given the unreliance of the auto box, especally with that much extra power, maybe best to give the conversion a higher priority. That way you wont fork out extra on the auto box, and then u can also feel the power gains at ur feet :)

Look forward to watching your progress through the kilowatts! How do you arrive at the flywheel figures from the atw figures. I have a auto Tf that dynod 155hp atw. Curious as to how you convert between the two.

does anyone know if this duration suggested by tighe cams will interfere with the pistons, as on the rpw website they suggest not to go larger than stage 2 with standard interior. everyone keeps saying the car will be lumpy, how bad do people think it would be?

does anyone know if this duration suggested by tighe cams will interfere with the pistons, as on the rpw website they suggest not to go larger than stage 2 with standard interior. everyone keeps saying the car will be lumpy, how bad do people think it would be?

It won't. The reason that RPW don't suggest going further with these cams is due to the fact that we have 9.0:1 compression. It's too low to permit satisfactory performance; it'll idle like a dog, and it'll probably loose power. As long as the cams are timed correctly, they won't go anywhere near the pistons, at .320" of lift.

hey guys just having a squiz through these pages and im interested to know; people seem very intereseted to know what they need or can do to achieve goals on the drag strip, good to see its kept at the track, im just interested to know if people are only interested om full street trim times for the 1/4?

Magna's are big cars, not as heavy as commo's and the like, and have a predominantly front heavy weight bias, how far do people go to help their times along? I mean i read in this topic about a magna with 200~fwkw, which is some good mumbo, but still only running in the 13's?

Im not going to knock a 13, i have only ever run a 13 (in my other car) do people remove seats? boot installs? the more weight you can keep over the front, and the less weight transfer backwards (from any weight behind the front wheels) if going to aid front wheel traction.

I woudlnt suggest removing the entire interior especially if you want to keep the car comfy/streetable, ive been there but just very interested to know

regards

Lionel

hey guys just having a squiz through these pages and im interested to know; people seem very intereseted to know what they need or can do to achieve goals on the drag strip, good to see its kept at the track, im just interested to know if people are only interested om full street trim times for the 1/4?

Magna's are big cars, not as heavy as commo's and the like, and have a predominantly front heavy weight bias, how far do people go to help their times along? I mean i read in this topic about a magna with 200~fwkw, which is some good mumbo, but still only running in the 13's?

Im not going to knock a 13, i have only ever run a 13 (in my other car) do people remove seats? boot installs? the more weight you can keep over the front, and the less weight transfer backwards (from any weight behind the front wheels) if going to aid front wheel traction.

I woudlnt suggest removing the entire interior especially if you want to keep the car comfy/streetable, ive been there but just very interested to know

regards

Lionel

You'll find there are a couple of members here who have some street slicks which they would throw on for outings to the strip / track. Other than that, a few favorite tricks are running very low tyre pressure in the front wheels (around 16-18psi), removing the spare wheel and running with as little fuel in the tank as possible.

Removing the rears seats is quite easy, but they don't weigh much at all so there would be bugger all gain. The front seats are quite heavy but personally - most times I've been to willowbank I've had a passenger so removing the front passenger seat wasn't an option.

personallly i wouldnt bother with the seats unless i was going to do the entire interior, each piece only weighs a few hundred grams, only worth it if it all comes out

Anyone every used factory height stiffened springs on the rear? nose the car down to keep as much weight at the front?

from the design all it would take is someone to have say some 4mm wall 40mmID pipe with an eyelet to suit the hub mount on the rear to run a solid strut so to speak, also allowing an increase in length (rear ride height)

i only ask as im fairly handy with a tig and spanners, and i know from experience how much gain there is to be had with only minor to no power gains down the 1/4 if your willing to swap things out for the track and replace them later (not neccessarily permanent alterations)

Lionel

Anyone every used factory height stiffened springs on the rear? nose the car down to keep as much weight at the front?



Not that I know of....... I've toyed with the idea of winding my rear coilovers so they are as tall as they can be at the rear + the stiffest setting, but never actually done it. Don't know if it would raise the rear enough to actually be worthwhile, being coilovers, I'd imagine they are still pretty low even at the highest setting. Solid struts with taller springs on the rear would be the way to go if you could be ****ed changing them over just for one trip to the drags - too much effort for me.

that was some pritty useful info, thanks guys. thats good to here about the pistons as well.i was hoping i could hold up until end of next year for a manual conversion, because of funds etc... but i also want to see how far i can take the auto box. anyways just letting you know iv updated first post, and the torque figure is at the hubs just like the kw figure, my mistake.ummm getting the plenum as well, will this dull down the lumpyness of the cams, a few people have told me it will? or any other suggestions?

thanks mike

how did you work out the difference between torque at the hubs and power at the wheels. Wouldn't you need different dyno for that? Also the conversion rates a little out. 174h.p = 129kw

I haven't heard of any reason the plenum would take the lumpiness out of the cams. You can have a rear muffler that is quiet like mine and not really even hear it until the revs get up high. It can only be good for the car, more breathing the better.

Hp -> Kw = / 1.34.

179 / 1.34 = 133.5.

Hp -> Kw = / 1.34.
what? horsepower minus greater than kilowatt equals divided by 1.34 ???


179 / 1.34 = 133.5.

agreed.

1 hp = ~0.75 kw

cheers,
.wook

what? horsepower minus greater than kilowatt equals divided by 1.34 ???



agreed.

1 hp = ~0.75 kw

cheers,
.wook
HP to KW, as in the conversion of horsepower to kilowatts (-> is an arrow)

HP to KW, as in the conversion of horsepower to kilowatts (-> is an arrow)

As if you didnt detect the sarcasm intended!

But how do you come up with the flywheel figures from the atw figures!? Atw wheel figures easy from a dyno. But not so the flywheel. Is there a reliable formula? Are they different for auto's to manuals?

But how do you come up with the flywheel figures from the atw figures!? Atw wheel figures easy from a dyno. But not so the flywheel. Is there a reliable formula? Are they different for auto's to manuals?

Yes, the drivetrain loss will be different. Because the torque converter is usually slipping, a fair bit of power will be lost, as opposed to a clutch, which is either engaged or disengaged.

Unless you know exactly how much power a particular transaxle will lose, really the only way to find out flywheel power is to run the engine on an engine dyno.

Thought this was so. Just wondering how Lenda was able to attain these figures without removing engine from car.

Thought this was so. Just wondering how Lenda was able to attain these figures without removing engine from car.

Its an estimation

it's fairly easy to get a drive train loss ratio and hence work out the flywheel power (or at least estimate it fairly closely).

he knew the stock flywheel figure (147kw), and what he got at the hubs while the car was stock (112kw). from there you get a ratio (147/112 = 1.3125), which, all things being equal, should stay fairly constant throughout the process. so when he gets 125kw atw, multiply that by our ratio and you get close to the flywheel number.

125kw * 1.3125 = ~164kw

134kw * 1.3125 = ~176kw

of course, you have to rely on the stock figure being right, but it should be fairly close, and we're really only interested in the difference from stock (i.e. improvements) anyway.

cheers,
.wook

But how do you come up with the flywheel figures from the atw figures!? Atw wheel figures easy from a dyno. But not so the flywheel. Is there a reliable formula? Are they different for auto's to manuals?

I think its about 25% to 30% loss for an auto front wheel drive vs about 20% or less for a manual fwd.

The awd auto loses more than 30%.

It's hard to believe dynos anyway.

The first dyno I did on my s/c awd gave me 112kw at the wheels. That performance shop told me the WRX Sti gave 160kw on the same dyno, in other words I was meant to believe that a stock 2litre Sti was making 40% more power at the wheels than a boosted 3.5L V6.

I don't see how a car weighing 1700kg can sprint to 100 kmhr in under 7 seconds with 112kw at the wheels!

The first dyno I did on my s/c awd gave me 112kw at the wheels. That performance shop told me the WRX Sti gave 160kw on the same dyno, in other words I was meant to believe that a stock 2litre Sti was making 40% more power at the wheels than a boosted 3.5L V6.

I don't see how a car weighing 1700kg can sprint to 100 kmhr in under 7 seconds with 112kw at the wheels!

a STi will run the 1/4 in mid 13's i reckon and thats alot quicker than higher 14's. But yeah even saying that 112kwatw sounds low. Mine has read 125kwatw and it's much lighter than your car and it could probably net a 14 if i put a new clutch in.

Another example. My mates evo 7. 190kwatw and 12.1 1/4.

12.1 with only 190kwatw - wow, first I've heard of anything like that! Usually the CT9A EVOs with 190-200kwatw run mid 12's. Do you know what his MPH was?

12.1 with only 190kwatw - wow, first I've heard of anything like that! Usually the CT9A EVOs with 190-200kwatw run mid 12's. Do you know what his MPH was?

110mph i believe. What does the CT9A evo's refer to? Definately noticably lighter than the later models too.
Sound right memory could be wrong about the 1/4. Definately hauled ass.

Cheers for those ratios and formulas.

110mph i believe. What does the CT9A evo's refer to? Definately noticably lighter than the later models too.
Sound right memory could be wrong about the 1/4. Definately hauled ass.
CT9A just refers to the last generation of EVOs (7-9) The EVO 7 GSR weighs the same as my 8 MR (1400kgs), and a bit less than the EVO 9 (1410kgs) It's just that guys are usually pushing more power to get those results, especially that MPH. But, dynos are as reliable as the weather. I'd say to be pushing 110mph he'd be well over 200kwatw.

gotta love awd traction.

RPW's fwd TT magna recently ran 11.8 with over 350kw at the wheels in a 1600kg car.

gotta love awd traction.

RPW's fwd TT magna recently ran 11.8 with over 350kw at the wheels in a 1600kg car.
Sure do. Hence why my EVO will do 0-100 in under 4 seconds. :cool:

Sure do. Hence why my EVO will do 0-100 in under 4 seconds. :cool:

and this thread isnt about ur evo, some other guys evo, the rpw magna, etc etc, its about Mikes magna build...

and this thread isnt about ur evo, some other guys evo, the rpw magna, etc etc, its about Mikes magna build...
Yeah, I know.

Back on topic.

Thanks Spacky!!! hey guys is there anything you can suggest for low down torque, without opening the engine up. The question still lays about the plenum helping with controlling the lumpyness of the car, if i get the cams. i will be buying the plenum anyway, just enquiring if it will help in the area, or is there anything else you can suggest to help with this issue.

cam gears to retard cams to lower power band, cams, head work, intake manifold and a computer are the things that will do it for your N/A. If you keep the auto 3000rpm stall converter will take care of any low end power issues.

I will be keeping my auto until the end of next year, maybe i might get the manual a bit sooner we will see, therefore dont want to spend to much money building up the auto box. if i get these cams, the cam gears and the intake plenum, and the car remains driveable, not to rough, and the box can handle the extra power, i will be happy. know i dont want to feel like im driving a truck, although if this is the case, which it sounds like it will be, what type of difference will reducing the duration by 2 or 3? if there isnt much difference i might just go for the stage 2 rpw cams. i know everyone is saying go for the manual conversion first, but i havent done much homework in this area, and i want the manual installed with a warranty, and yes i know this will cost a hell of a lot more. RPW have suggested they can do it, but they have never done one before therefore dont know how many hours they will spend on it. therefore if anyone is in wa and knows a mechanic which knows there stuff, let me know. although i would rather hold it of until i get more finances free, as i can get the plenums and cams in stages, and i know exactly how much they will cost, but the manual convo could blow out in price, which is making me a bit nervous about the hole process. anyways i would love your opinions and thoughts.

thanx mike

cam gears to retard cams to lower power band, cams, head work, intake manifold and a computer are the things that will do it for your N/A. If you keep the auto 3000rpm stall converter will take care of any low end power issues.

You will actually need to advance the cam gears not retard if you want your low down torque to improve but expect to lose it up top. however this maybe where the plenum can help. i am keen myself to get a plenum to retard my cams a little more and see what sort of gains i get. i would be happy to have similar top end for a bit more go at the bottom. I have only retarded mine two degrees. you can see in my dyno a bit more torque down low when they were put in at 4.5 retarded. hope this helps....i need more money:cry: http://www.aussiemagna.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=27878&d=1169037726 i would still go the manual conversion first. As proven with the likes of blackbeard, you could get close to a 20kw atw increase with a manual conversion. you will not get these sort of gains with cams and plenum, and with labour, similar $$$$$. also if you are really keen for the stage twos you will have to spend extra on springs, but with a manual no troubles with idle compared to an auto.

Don't bother with the Stage 2's unless you are going to flow your heads and throw in some 10:1 pistons (e.g from the DOHC pajero).

And then I'd be looking at getting a custom grind with some more duation, depending on what you want out of it.

With stock heads and CR, RPW's "stage" 1 or a very similar profile is what you want. Don't expect a big gain in top-end, but decent gains in midrange punch, and your usable powerband will be extended 500rpm or so.

Using a "bigger" cam with stock CR and heads just means you'll lose bottom end and even midrange if you go too far, for a minimal gain in top-end.

Seriously, do the manual conversion first, the difference in how quick it feels is enormous.

hey guys, a customer saw my car today and we got talking, and he was telling me how he used to own a TJ magna, 4 speed auto, same as mine, and was telling me he got exactly what i am looking at getting but with smaller cams, he had the cams with a duration of 258. He said it was a little lumpy, nothing to drastic, didnt loose any low down torque and gained mid range and small amounts of high end torque. he couldnt remeber though what he got on the dyno, but he said he was going to try and find them. he know owns a HSV. anyways do you rekon this duration could go well, with what I am looking for, as i want to keep the auto as long as i can. i know everyone suggests to get the manual conversion, as i will later on, but i want to see what i can do with the auto box without modifying it, and i want time to find a person to do a manual conversion, and knows what they are doing.:cool: anyways thought i would just put that out there. otherwise looks like i will have to go with the conversion first :doubt: thanks for all your help by the way guys and girls. cant wait till all this goes ahead and i get the money for it, unless someone wants to give me some money that is:badgrin: shouldnt take to long.

mike

may not be too bad....have a look here for the durations on RPW cams to compare. Ask that bloke whe he got his from too.
http://www.rpw.com.au/Products/Engine%20Components/Camshaft%20Specifications/camspec6g7s24.htm

its funny, people in WA have been crying out for somewhere to do the manual conversion for a few years now, yet RPW still keeps giving the same bs story of "it may take a while, dunno how much labour" etc etc... yet they cant just do 1 test car, and profit from there... because there is a need for it here! I'm just surprised at all the test stuff they do (asking for customers to hook up new parts for testing, giving discounts on the install etc to cover it), and yet theres no real interest in the manual conversions!

its just frustrating that the 1 place who supposedly really knows the magna, and they dont know it well enuff to change the gearbox over...

*sigh*

its funny, people in WA have been crying out for somewhere to do the manual conversion for a few years now, yet RPW still keeps giving the same bs story of "it may take a while, dunno how much labour" etc etc... yet they cant just do 1 test car, and profit from there... because there is a need for it here! I'm just surprised at all the test stuff they do (asking for customers to hook up new parts for testing, giving discounts on the install etc to cover it), and yet theres no real interest in the manual conversions!

its just frustrating that the 1 place who supposedly really knows the magna, and they dont know it well enuff to change the gearbox over...

*sigh*

yes very very fustrating. he tells around 3500, he said he would put a limit of 4000, but serious for that much it probably is not worth it, unless that included short shifter and heavy duty clutch.from what i have read it doesnt take that long.

$3500 - $4k, for a mechanic who supposedly knows the car...? gawd talk about bs! umm talk to icarian, last i heard he had a mechanic who was interested, just needed to find the parts

i wonder if we did a poll for WA how many people would be interested in a manual conversion, but cant find a mechanic to do it.

i know i was intersted (except ive just decided to finish my uni degree)

hey peeps, im just a bit comfused i have been told that rpw get there cams from tighe, whome charge $1300 for any duration i want. i cant get in contact with rpw because of christmas but on there site, it says they charge $1065 for there cams, but the price doesnt alter for the durations.

this is from the rpw site: "The price is the same price regardless of which grind we place on the camshaft - because we have to grind it anyway. The choice is only what grind you need"

any assited will be greatly appreciated.

im also getting vernier cam gears and valve springs from rpw when i get the money for this, just wanna make sure i get the right stuff hehe.


mike

hey peeps, im just a bit comfused i have been told that rpw get there cams from tighe, whome charge $1300 for any duration i want. i cant get in contact with rpw because of christmas but on there site, it says they charge $1065 for there cams, but the price doesnt alter for the durations.

this is from the rpw site: "The price is the same price regardless of which grind we place on the camshaft - because we have to grind it anyway. The choice is only what grind you need"

any assited will be greatly appreciated.

im also getting vernier cam gears and valve springs from rpw when i get the money for this, just wanna make sure i get the right stuff hehe.


mike


The price on RPW's website is never what you end up paying, for starters, he doesn't list GST in his prices (which I'm pretty sure is illegal but whatever), additionally he passes on all his transport costs (what he pays to get the stuff to his shop) to the buyer + the cost of freighting the items to your door.

I've never heard that RPW get their cams from Tighe, but maybe it's a case of RPW's website having bull**** prices, and Tighe actually list the real price you pay for the cams delivered to your door.

I've never heard that RPW get their cams from Tighe

Yeah, they do. At least in my experience. You'll also note that RPW's listed specs for stage 1-3 coincide closely with Tighe's recommended specs for those 'stages' as well :D

If it is true about there prices i might just order the cams of tighe might be much easier way of doing it. probably cheaper as well. im not able to get hold of any of the places to ask them questions because of christmas break, i am trying to enquire if i would still need valve springs for a 258 duration on the magna, im going to get the vernier gears as i think they will help me tune my car. im also chucking up between the rpw manifold or the ez-boy manifold any major differences that anyone is aware of. any suggestions????

thanks mike

If it is true about there prices i might just order the cams of tighe might be much easier way of doing it. probably cheaper as well. im not able to get hold of any of the places to ask them questions because of christmas break, i am trying to enquire if i would still need valve springs for a 258 duration on the magna, im going to get the vernier gears as i think they will help me tune my car. im also chucking up between the rpw manifold or the ez-boy manifold any major differences that anyone is aware of. any suggestions????

thanks mike

Just ring Dean Tighe tell him what mods ya have to the engine and what you plan to do, he'll work out a grind for you. Just remember not to bull**** with ya mods because to big a cam grind will make your car go backwards, its better to be a bit smaller than too big.

Also i just had him do up a pair of cam for my cousins offroad buggy (which has a 3.5 magna motor in it),the total cost to supply and freight the cams to me here in adelaide was $1025 including GST. ($909.09 for the cams, $22.73 for freight and $93.18 GST)

Oh and RPW's inlet plenum is just a rehashed stock unit with a larger barrel and bellmouths all welded on to the stock runners. EZboys plenum is a complete new alloy casting with larger barrel, twin runners, its cheaper and best of all it was all done by a great fellow club member not by a company just out to make money.

alright i think ill be ringing tighe when they open again, then ill be patient and wait for ez-boys plenum i think. well no updates of installments, just getting new seals and cv joint over the next month then ill get these babies set up.

These threads are awesome :)

:stoopid: Dont ya love em ay.... :P

Instead of wasting money on power mods for a barge... why not shave some weight...

The 3 main things in an NA engine that are going to change the performance characteristics are;

1. Cams
2. Porting
3. Compression

The rest comes down to perfecting tuning.

You will actually need to advance the cam gears not retard if you want your low down torque to improve but expect to lose it up top. however this maybe where the plenum can help. i am keen myself to get a plenum to retard my cams a little more and see what sort of gains i get.

The ACTUAL benefeit of altering cam timing through adjustable cam gears can only be had on an dohc engine. On a sohc, the best way is to have the gears perfectly ground/profiled in the beginning.

The reason for altering cam timing on a dohc engine is to change overlap. Now somebody please explain to me how overlap between the inlet and exhaust profiles can be altered on a sohc engine by using cam gears......

For the measely gain i'd rather spend the $200 that the gears are worth, elsewhere.
Not trying to offend people here... but theres quite a bit of stuff in this thread thats wrong. :confused:

The ACTUAL benefeit of altering cam timing through adjustable cam gears can only be had on an dohc engine. On a sohc, the best way is to have the gears perfectly ground/profiled in the beginning.

The reason for altering cam timing on a dohc engine is to change overlap. Now somebody please explain to me how overlap between the inlet and exhaust profiles can be altered on a sohc engine by using cam gears......

For the measely gain i'd rather spend the $200 that the gears are worth, elsewhere.
Not trying to offend people here... but theres quite a bit of stuff in this thread thats wrong. :confused:

Adjustable cam gears used on a SOHC engine so as to "zero" the standard factory cam correctly and to either retard or advance the cam timing and nothing more (which has the effect of moving the power up or down the rpm range). As you have stated they will not change the overlap etc.

This is why my engines that i have built dont have adjustable gears, i just use the good old stock gears because when i get my cams made i make sure that the "pin" is set at absolute zero and with the lift/duration im running i can only retard the cams by 2degrees any way, so there is no point in doing it.

When it comes to building up 3.5L magna motors ive done quite a few, so i reckon i know what im doing :) BUT ive have chosen to stay out of this thread so that i can see what other know/recommend.

This is why my engines that i have built dont have adjustable gears, i just use the good old stock gears because when i get my cams made i make sure that the "pin" is set at absolute zero and with the lift/duration im running i can only retard the cams by 2degrees any way, so there is no point in doing it.

Exactly what i said... its best to have the lobe centres set correctly during grinding.. than screwing around pointlessly with cam gears.
VCT is the only propper adjustability on a sohc, as you can optimise the shift of the powerband propperly.

Adjustable cam gears used on a SOHC engine so as to "zero" the standard factory cam correctly and to either retard or advance the cam timing and nothing more (which has the effect of moving the power up or down the rpm range). As you have stated they will not change the overlap etc.

This is why my engines that i have built dont have adjustable gears, i just use the good old stock gears because when i get my cams made i make sure that the "pin" is set at absolute zero and with the lift/duration im running i can only retard the cams by 2degrees any way, so there is no point in doing it.

When it comes to building up 3.5L magna motors ive done quite a few, so i reckon i know what im doing :) BUT ive have chosen to stay out of this thread so that i can see what other know/recommend.

for the people that know about this stuff please dont stay out of this thread i want your knowledge so i can maximise the effect i have on my cars power without wasting my money, i want ur opinions, ur help, and ur pointers. please dont hesitate.

hey guys, no official update on the performance mods, but the plan is to wait on ez boys plenum and see what people think, an email has been sent of to tighe for a 160 duration cams, wont be ordered till feb/march due to replacing many gaskets and seals, and cv joints next week, as they are all in need of doing, therefore going to mitso to be done, and as you can imagin not cheap. anyways here is a couple of recent happy snaps.

iv also got some non performance mods planned ready for car show in july. for anyone thats interested strut brace, scuff plates, retrim roof, retrim doors and seats, and a new muffler.

hopefully im also going to get upgraded brakes in a few months as well, either 276mm twin piston caliper brakes, with slotted rotors, or 295mm twin piston caliper slotted rotors. what do you rekon.

mike

http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/4445/gettingdarkab5.th.png (http://img112.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gettingdarkab5.png)

http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/5168/stilllightnb2.th.png (http://img185.imageshack.us/my.php?image=stilllightnb2.png)

http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/931/enginebaywa5.th.png (http://img411.imageshack.us/my.php?image=enginebaywa5.png)


http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/1307/enginebay2po6.th.png (http://img185.imageshack.us/my.php?image=enginebay2po6.png)

which car show? is that autosalon in july? maybe wait until the new one in october, which will also give u (and some other members) a bit more time for more mods :)

club display? :)

yeh i think there was a thread about doing a club display at the autosalon this year, hope it still goes ahead, cant wait, hopefully she will be ready. :)

an email has been sent of to tighe for a 160 duration cams

are you sure you mean 160 degree duration? :)

brake upgrades sound like a good idea - something I always meant to do with mine.

hopefully im also going to get upgraded brakes in a few months as well, either 276mm twim piston caliper brakes, with slotted rotors, or 295mm twim piston caliper slotted rotors. what do you rekon.


Id personally go with the 294mm rotor in either the awd/ralliart caliper or with the calipers from a 380 they both fit a TH (ive got the 380 ones) but both require custom hoses which can be brought for 75 each for ADR approved braided lines. Match that with DBA4000's or eqivalent and its a massive upgrade compared to standard. Mine still pops my eyeballs out when i hit the picks hard :P

brake upgrades sound like a good idea - something I always meant to do with mine.

Where is yours dude? Stored away in a dark garage somewhere?

the brakes i have mentioned are the ones rpw sell, has anyone had any experience with there brake kits???

and yeh i did mean 160 degree duration... what is your professional opinion? what sought of gains what i will be looking at, i know there is going to be more top end power, for anyone that has similar mods what power figures do you have?

the brakes i have mentioned are the ones rpw sell, has anyone had any experience with there brake kits???

and yeh i did mean 160 degree duration... what is your professional opinion? what sought of gains what i will be looking at, i know there is going to be more top end power, for anyone that has similar mods what power figures do you have?

Well 160 Degree duration will prolly send your power backwards... :shock:

Dont you mean something like 260 Degree Duration? That would be alot more benifical...

Where is yours dude? Stored away in a dark garage somewhere?

Yes indeedy.


Well 160 Degree duration will prolly send your power backwards...

Dont you mean something like 260 Degree Duration? That would be alot more benifical...

:stoopid:

The (advertised) duration of standard TJ cams is about 248 degrees. I was running about 296 degrees on mine.

:stoopid:

The (advertised) duration of standard TJ cams is about 248 degrees. I was running about 296 degrees on mine.

Yeah the cams in my new engine are similar to yours, main difference are mine are dual profile cams - 300 degree duration on the inlet and 290 degrees on the exhaust.

ok the second time i wrote it, i ment to say 260, i am such a **** sometimes. the same question still applies, about the power. i know it will be more top end but how much of a gain should i be looking at, and what will happen to the low down power, even if that decreases a new intake plenum should help out.

How much lift? What shape are the lobes? How many degrees lobe separation? What's the overlap?

Unfortunately, just knowing the lobe duration doesn't tell you much of the picture. :(

lol well unfortunatly my friend i know nothing about those things ill have to wait until i here from tighe cams, i think they must be on holidays still i tried to ring, no answer, so i sent an email, once they reply ill ask them for my use and urs :) they just told me a 268 duration but this probably will be to lumpy for the auto, so i sent them an email about 260 duration, they never mentioned anything else.

edit: where have you been this whole threadlol

ok the second time i wrote it, i ment to say 260, i am such a **** sometimes. the same question still applies, about the power. i know it will be more top end but how much of a gain should i be looking at, and what will happen to the low down power, even if that decreases a new intake plenum should help out.

How longs a piece of string?

In all honesty stimating power outputs is hard as there is many more factors to good power/torque than just the cams "duration", also as you increase the duration of a cam you will lose low down power.

A good ECU tune can only go so far in helping with a big cam setup

How longs a piece of string?


twice the distance from the center to the end.

has anyone had any experience with full standalone engine management???

Heaps of people have...

Booya, The Ego, Killbilly, Tuff TR [well soon]... I know there are more... Just cant think of them...

twice the distance from the center to the end.

has anyone had any experience with full standalone engine management???

killbilly never had a stand alone did he? On his DOHC he ran a diamante ecu rewired.

I have a stand alone haltech ecu.

How longs a piece of string?

In all honesty stimating power outputs is hard as there is many more factors to good power/torque than just the cams "duration", also as you increase the duration of a cam you will lose low down power.

A good ECU tune can only go so far in helping with a big cam setup


ok ok, ill ask the question again when i have more information. if anyone has similar mods to what i have and what im going to have, what power outputs do you have as a matter of interest.

sorry for the mix up people, ill try to get the right info next time lol

mike

ok ok, ill ask the question again when i have more information. if anyone has similar mods to what i have and what im going to have, what power outputs do you have as a matter of interest.

sorry for the mix up people, ill try to get the right info next time lol

mike

Oh alright, we'll let you off the hook ;) Fortunately Tighe know what they're doing so you'll probably end up with camshaft that has all the right bits in all the right places.. you're an auto right? If you were a manual I'd say you'd be somewhere near the 165kW ATW mark but being an auto it's going to be less.

say around 150kw atw, would this figure include the manifold as well or just the cams :D oh and thankyou for being so understanding! lol

mike

it is something that you will have to play around with to get right but it is possible to get 150hpatw i think. Your current 170h.p (actually 126katw) is pretty high for the mods you have. With the manifold tho i think to get those results and playing around with the cam gears to get a balance of low and top end power. I have 175h.p (130kwatw) with 2 degrees retarded and stage one cams with gears

With my manual I managed 150kW atw with RPW "stage 1" cams, piggy-back ecu, and a lot of head work. With 296 degree, high lift cams and high comp pistons, when my engine was healthy, I hit 207kW ATW (dyno sheet in my sig). Each of these runs was done in "shootout mode" on a dyno dynamics roller dyno. Of course every dyno is different, blah, blah.. shootout mode is "supposed" to even out all of this, but it assumes the dyno is calibrated, temp and pressure sensors are working, etc, so take it all with a grain of salt.. but it shows you what's possible.

With my manual I managed 150kW atw with RPW "stage 1" cams, piggy-back ecu, and a lot of head work. With 296 degree, high lift cams and high comp pistons, when my engine was healthy, I hit 207kW ATW (dyno sheet in my sig). Each of these runs was done in "shootout mode" on a dyno dynamics roller dyno. Of course every dyno is different, blah, blah.. shootout mode is "supposed" to even out all of this, but it assumes the dyno is calibrated, temp and pressure sensors are working, etc, so take it all with a grain of salt.. but it shows you what's possible.

Yeah man.. Would have loved to have seen/heard your car in action too... you have a exhaust sound clip anywhere? Still like to hear it man!

Regards
Alex

Yeah man.. Would have loved to have seen/heard your car in action too... you have a exhaust sound clip anywhere? Still like to hear it man!

Regards
Alex

You know, I do have one on a hard drive somewhere! just need to find it.

Actually, I think i found one but it's just idling.. doesn't sound like a magna! Unfortunately it's not that impressive either.. I know I did some recordings inside the car but I don't know what I did with them.. I'll email this one to you.

You know, I do have one on a hard drive somewhere! just need to find it.

Actually, I think i found one but it's just idling.. doesn't sound like a magna! Unfortunately it's not that impressive either.. I know I did some recordings inside the car but I don't know what I did with them.. I'll email this one to you.

Thanks dude :D

Just spoke to dave, he told me his prices on the website are correct and that he charges same price for any duration, which happens to be $1065. Therefore there is no reason for me not to use his cams, if he supposibly gets his cams from tighe. The other thing is, i was looking at his vernier gears and the price is $275 if i trade mine in, i dont know if this means modify mine or not. The other option is if i dont trade mine in there is a core charge its an extra $242. maybe im stupid but what on earth does this mean, i have to pay extra money just to keep the gears i have or what... hopefully someone can shed some light for me. The other thing is, he cant install them until May, therefore gotta ask my mechanic and see if he can do it, my question is, will my car be ok to drive around if it isnt tuned until i can get to rpw. he said he can tune when ever but cant install.wont be ordering the parts until Feb/March. Anyways thought i would just share where i am standing.

Thanks Mike

Just spoke to dave, he told me his prices on the website are correct and that he charges same price for any duration, which happens to be $1065. Therefore there is no reason for me not to use his cams, if he supposibly gets his cams from tighe. The other thing is, i was looking at his vernier gears and the price is $275 if i trade mine in, i dont know if this means modify mine or not. The other option is if i dont trade mine in there is a core charge its an extra $242. maybe im stupid but what on earth does this mean, i have to pay extra money just to keep the gears i have or what... hopefully someone can shed some light for me. The other thing is, he cant install them until May, therefore gotta ask my mechanic and see if he can do it, my question is, will my car be ok to drive around if it isnt tuned until i can get to rpw. he said he can tune when ever but cant install.wont be ordering the parts until Feb/March. Anyways thought i would just share where i am standing.

Thanks Mike

Mike,

There website doesnt add on the 10% GST to the prices, so what price you see on there you must add GST to get the real purchase price.

If you want to get them from RPW thats up to you but as i posted earlier, buying direct from tighe will save you $$$ (even more when GST is taken into account) and be frieghted to your door, i know where id be purchasing the parts from.

I have now built up three modified 3.5L magna motors and there are good savings to be made on parts if you spend abit of time and shop around (think outside the square :) )

Oh and i have nothing personally against RPW

The whole core charge vs. exchange thing works like this...

Dave buys some stock gear and modifies it, then sells it at a new price. If you want some of these you can buy them outright, or exchange them for your old parts which he will then modify and sell to someone else.

exchange price + core-charge = outright price

otherwise you get a 'discount' of the core-charge if you send yours in for exchange. Note that this doesn't have to happen at the same time. I bought a short-shifter from RPW and paid the outright price, then when I was happy I sent him my old shifter and got a cheque in the post for the difference.

The whole core charge vs. exchange thing works like this...

Dave buys some stock gear and modifies it, then sells it at a new price. If you want some of these you can buy them outright, or exchange them for your old parts which he will then modify and sell to someone else.

exchange price + core-charge = outright price

otherwise you get a 'discount' of the core-charge if you send yours in for exchange. Note that this doesn't have to happen at the same time. I bought a short-shifter from RPW and paid the outright price, then when I was happy I sent him my old shifter and got a cheque in the post for the difference.


Ahh thanks mate, very much appreciated.ill Keep you all posted on updates.

Mike

Yeah man.. Would have loved to have seen/heard your car in action too... you have a exhaust sound clip anywhere? Still like to hear it man!

Regards
Alex
His car ain't that impressive, nor sounds good. ;) hehehehe





























/joke

His car ain't that impressive, nor sounds good. ;) hehehehe

/joke

bite me :P

Updated first page. Added 1/4 mile times.

Does anyone know of any mechanics that will be able to install my cams, vernier gears and valve springs, Dave at RPW is busy until May?

Does anyone know of any good dyno places in perth that will do magnas, iv asked a few and they have said they wont do magnas or are charging something like 1500.

Thanks Mike

Updated first page. Added 1/4 mile times.

Does anyone know of any mechanics that will be able to install my cams, vernier gears and valve springs, Dave at RPW is busy until May?

Does anyone know of any good dyno places in perth that will do magnas, iv asked a few and they have said they wont do magnas or are charging something like 1500.

Thanks Mike

Any decent place should be able to install the cams and tune it all.

Places that won't do magna's are ignorant and not worth your time.

Does the 1500 include the cam's install and tune? if so thats actually not bad.

Any decent place should be able to install the cams and tune it all.

Places that won't do magna's are ignorant and not worth your time.

Does the 1500 include the cam's install and tune? if so thats actually not bad.

No that 1500 only is a custum tune and thats it. Maybe i read the email wrong but thats what he said.

No that 1500 only is a custum tune and thats it. Maybe i read the email wrong but thats what he said.

Ring people; lets you hear their attitude. Thats way too much. The cams might involve a fair bit of time to install.

Tweaking them for the tune itself id be thinking something closer to 800$ depending on the cam.

All that to run a 15.8? :nuts:

All that to run a 15.8? :nuts:

We cant all buy Evos and go run 13s out of the factory :doubt:

All that to run a 15.8? :nuts:

The only things that wouldve effected the time were a pod and a miniceptor.

I didnt expect to go much faster, as most of the mods arent performance modifications. Once cams and plenum and the manual goes in im hoping to see an improvement on times. sorry to disappoint.

mike

you defanitely need a manual ASAP!!!!

i ran mine with a G-Tech (yeah yeah i know, it's not a 'true' 1/4 mile) and got 15.4 before my new exhaust. got the same time 3 times in a row.

it was stock at that time apart from rear muffler change....

Damn you and your manuals :rant:

Yeh i cant wait, but finding someone to do it for me is a huge problem here in WA and i dont want some back yad mechanic either, sorry but im a bit picky when it comes to my car.


I rang a few places so when i get someone to install my cams for me i can get the car tuned, so...

I rang chipmaster to see if they will dyno tune my car - nope sorry dont do magnas.

I rang Australian Performance Centre - $1500-$2000 for a custum tune include dyno

Dave at RPW charges $400, so whats the difference between his tunes and say APC. Yet to confirm that Dave can do the tune for me.

Mike

I rang Australian Performance Centre - $1500-$2000 for a custum tune include dyno


They dont want your work so they quoted way to high

dave is probably cheaper due to the fact that he knows exactly what to do and how long it will take, therefor can do it in less time than the other guys and knows what to charge.

good work mate. Im liking the extra 13kw atw just for the exhaust system (every kw counts lol), it will be interesting to see how it sounds once the cams are in. But like you have said you probably will notice it all once you have the manual conversion and can freely rev the car as you please.

I would be patient if I was you....i know its hard. Just keep on with Dave(he might have a cancellation if you are prepared at short notice). Sounds like the others are quoting too high. I had Cams, gears AND emanage fitted and tuned for $1500. You already have the piggyback, just needs a post tune after cams are done. Maybe if you hold out, you can save for a EZBoy plenum as well. Then you might be happy with your auto!!!


All that to run a 15.8? :nuts:

I am with Brett ont this. For your alleged 170h.p.atw i would of thought you would be quicker than that. I did a 15.3 with cai and extractors and stock sports exhaust (154hpatw)before cams and stuff...mind you, they only gave me .2 off my time.. i need to learn how to race too:doubt:

I am with Brett ont this. For your alleged 170h.p.atw i would of thought you would be quicker than that. I did a 15.3 with cai and extractors and stock sports exhaust (154hpatw)before cams and stuff...mind you, they only gave me .2 off my time.. i need to learn how to race too:doubt:

I have to think that the taller gearing of the 4sp auto 'box had a lot to do with the time... 60' time and final speed would tell us a lot.

but yeah, 15.8 is fairly slow.

cheers,
.wook

Dont forget those figures at the wheels are from a dyno which reads from the hub, which means the reading are slightly to high. Yeh i was hoping for a better time, i was a bit disappointed, next time im going to take out my sub, amp, spare tyre, and hope for a cooler night, not that this will make much of a difference and hope that my driving skills improve.

For anyone interested here are my details on the race.

1/4 mile time: 15.849
Speed: 141.44km
Reaction: .527
60 foot: 2.568
Temp: 28.8 C
Humidity: 44.0%
Wind: SW at 11 knots
Track Temp: 45.3 C

PS: Hints for driving accepted!!!:bowrofl:

Mike

Wow, that 60ft time is horrible, no offence. Get that down to about 2.3 and you'll run low 15's, 15.2-15.3. What km/h did you run?

Wow, that 60ft time is horrible, no offence. Get that down to about 2.3 and you'll run low 15's, 15.2-15.3. What km/h did you run?

that would be the 141.44kph.. and I doubt he can knock half a second off his 60' time just through technique - it's an auto after all.

and what the heck is a haltech miniceptor? I'm going to assume you mean the interceptor, since they don't list anything called a miniceptor on their website..

Yeh its a different version of an interceptor has less one plug or something (Ill get the details if you like) lol

The guy in the 200sx that i was racing got 13.7 and his 60 foot time was 2.364, so i thought i didnt do to bad :cry:

Hopefully with better conditions and more experience and less luggage i get a slightly better time, but i doubt it will make much of a difference.

Dont forget those figures at the wheels are from a dyno which reads from the hub, which means the reading are slightly to high. Yeh i was hoping for a better time, i was a bit disappointed, next time im going to take out my sub, amp, spare tyre, and hope for a cooler night, not that this will make much of a difference and hope that my driving skills improve.

For anyone interested here are my details on the race.

1/4 mile time: 15.849
Speed: 141.44km
Reaction: .527
60 foot: 2.568
Temp: 28.8 C
Humidity: 44.0%
Wind: SW at 11 knots
Track Temp: 45.3 C

PS: Hints for driving accepted!!!:bowrofl:

Mike

that WILL make a difference... depending on your amp and sub (especially if it's boxed), you could easily be taking more than 40kg out of your car. and that'll distribute the weight more to the front (over the driving wheels!!). any little bit helps.

as for driving tips, not much to offer with the auto 'box. put it in drive, left foot on the brake, bring up the revs as much as you can (I think it might go to 1500RPM) and go when the yellows light up. if you wait for the greens your reaction time will be shocking!

oh yeah, keep it off the wall... that'll slow you down heaps :bowrofl:

cheers,
.wook

that WILL make a difference... depending on your amp and sub (especially if it's boxed), you could easily be taking more than 40kg out of your car. and that'll distribute the weight more to the front (over the driving wheels!!). any little bit helps.

as for driving tips, not much to offer with the auto 'box. put it in drive, left foot on the brake, bring up the revs as much as you can (I think it might go to 1500RPM) and go when the yellows light up. if you wait for the greens your reaction time will be shocking!

oh yeah, keep it off the wall... that'll slow you down heaps :bowrofl:

cheers,
.wook

Ohh that must of been my problem then, next time ill remember that one. :bowrofl:

Thanks for the tips mate.

Mike

Yeh its a different version of an interceptor has less one plug or something (Ill get the details if you like) lol

please do! am curious.

btw, i assume you know you can download the software from haltech and check out your own map and monitor various engine sensors.

that would be the 141.44kph.. and I doubt he can knock half a second off his 60' time just through technique - it's an auto after all.

and what the heck is a haltech miniceptor? I'm going to assume you mean the interceptor, since they don't list anything called a miniceptor on their website..
Oops, missed the speed. To run a 2.3 60 foot he only needs to shave 0.2 sec, not half a second, and it is doable, I've seen it time and time again down at Willowbank by myself and other mates. 0.1 on the 60ft time is worth up 0.3 at the end. But that terminal speed of only 87mph... Maybe not.

"The Miniceptor is a cut down version of the Haltech Interceptor, identical in every way except for a non waterproof metallic case and normal Auto Spec wiring instead of the Interceptors Plastic Water Proof case and Millitiary spec wiring. "

"The Miniceptor provides tuning of fuel mixtures, ignition timing, boost levels and many other features with newly designed Interceptor Windows Software. As the Haltech Miniceptor works with the factory ECU, you need only tune where necessary, with the factory levels of economy, idle quality, cold start etc being fully maintained."

Haltech do supply these but have not uploaded the information onto there website, i stole it from RPW :badgrin:

Yeh iv downloaded the haltech program from the net, havent got around to hooking it up yet lol

oh yeah, keep it off the wall...

thats not as funny as it sounds until you read this....

http://www.boostcruising.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=240624

not sure if it has been posted before but this reminded me of it.

Well guys and girls the date for the muffler has moved up to the 20th :) which i am very happy about!!! The other good news is I have found a mechanic to install the cams, Dave is going to tune the car for around 400 depending how long it takes, so i am a very happy guy :).

Since now i am saving all my money i possibly can for the cams, i was wondering if it would be safe to drive the car from the mechanics to Daves place. Im getting 262 duration cams with the valve springs. Therefore my question is, will the car be safe to drive for that one trip???

Thanks for all your helps and opinions over the last few months or so.

Mike

PS: Not long now im getting all excited, only a month or 2 to go. :P

Well the muffler is on and sounds awsome, not to much droning, looks awsome ill add up pics in the next few days. anyways went down to the drags tonight and improved my times a bit. here is the information. i took the tyre and sub out of the car, and this was the result.

1/4 mile time: 15.521
Speed: 144.84kph/90.00mph
Reaction Time: 0.216
60 foot: 2.495
Ambient Temp: 29 degrees
Track Temp: 38.0 degrees

best reaction time 0.003

Yay improvement!!!

Pics coming soon... :)

Mike

Here we go:

The muffler needs lifting looks a bit silly at the moment, but i got to get the bumper cut first and the other problem is there is a bracket in the way, if anyone could help me with suggestions, that would be great.

http://img105.imageshack.us/img105/3521/magnaflowmufflermw5.th.png (http://img105.imageshack.us/my.php?image=magnaflowmufflermw5.png)

http://img105.imageshack.us/img105/3086/magnaflowmuffler1zg5.th.png (http://img105.imageshack.us/my.php?image=magnaflowmuffler1zg5.png)

here is the bracket:

http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/2314/magnaflowmuffler3fh1.th.png (http://img246.imageshack.us/my.php?image=magnaflowmuffler3fh1.png)

Mike

i just had my muffler lifted and added a tip yesterday. I got a smash repairer to cut the bar out first with a air saw, then took it back to have it lifted an a BA xr6 tip put on. I will put a pick up if you like.

yeh that would be great thanks mate.

what do you think about them saying that bracket is in the way, what did you do about it?

mike

Is that the plastic one???? if it is, they just cut thru it:P Here is what they did, not a perfect cut, but good enough for me

ohhh sweet thanks mate.

yeh i think the bracket is actual some sought of metal, as it looks it in the pik. i was thinking last night if i could pull the muffler back a few centemetres so the bracket goes between the tips, but i was looking at the pipework and there is only a centremetre gap between the pipe and another bracket, ill get photos if needed, so i wont be able to do that, might have to take it to the panel beaters and see what they rekon. is there anyone in wa that knows there exhaust or has a mate that knows there stuff.

thanks mike

Air-saw?? I used a grinder:

Air-saw?? I used a grinder:

nice and straight...did you file them clean. i imagine a grinder would of melted the bar a bit. Mine was cut at a smash repairers and taken straight round to the exhaust shop, so no time to clean mine up:doubt: i'mhappy still.
...B.O.T

nice and straight...did you file them clean. i imagine a grinder would of melted the bar a bit. Mine was cut at a smash repairers and taken straight round to the exhaust shop, so no time to clean mine up:doubt: i'mhappy still.
...B.O.T

I've got a surgeon's hand :D I did it while it was on the hoist at Dad's exhaust shop and the muffler was being held up in the void ready to plumb in. Maybe I got lucky.

Was considering using some of the 2-part bog plasticine stuff to create a lip around the exhaust cut-out for an XR6 BA kind of look.

Back to your quarter results, its your 60' time thats killing you unfortunality. Even if you add more power, if you cant get the 60' time down, your quarter times arnt going to be that fantastic.

Looking more at your results, your trap speed is quite good. +1 for manual time, or, have you considered looking into getting a bigger stall convertor ?

I've got a surgeon's hand :D I did it while it was on the hoist at Dad's exhaust shop and the muffler was being held up in the void ready to plumb in. Maybe I got lucky.

Was considering using some of the 2-part bog plasticine stuff to create a lip around the exhaust cut-out for an XR6 BA kind of look.

I would be very keen to find out how this actually works as I'd love to tackle something like this myself.

only thing is my rear bad flaps around a bit because the left hand side bracing had to be removed for the dualies setup, so it might be a bit fragile..

that is so weird that ur 60 foot and over all time is much faster but my trap speed is much faster, by 8 mph. damn autos. just to let everyone know i have the stage 2 cams on order as well as the valve springs, but it looks like nothing willbe installed until May, damn mechanics. i dont get it, Dave rekons i will need to buy the cam gears, because if i dont it can be up to 5 degrees out or something. we will see when i get them installed. thought u guys would like the update :D

mike

Back to your quarter results, its your 60' time thats killing you unfortunality. Even if you add more power, if you cant get the 60' time down, your quarter times arnt going to be that fantastic.

Looking more at your results, your trap speed is quite good. +1 for manual time, or, have you considered looking into getting a bigger stall convertor ?

I am sure with the plans he has the more power factor he will have will certainly improve his 1/4 mile times even with an auto. It just depends how much. man you must be chompin' at the bit with all these plans and no-one to install....good to hear it is all happening.

hey mike. nice to see your giving it a go.

I'm from perth also, and looking at doing what your doing.
might use any left over from my house loan and put it into my car :P.
goal is to spend $6k tops. try and get it to the 160kwatw.

lets see as a v. quick estimate
$1000 full exhaust : pacemaker extractors, 2.5inch mandrel bent pipe.( already got straight through muffler). is a hi flow cat necessary?
$900 intake manifold : EZBoys
$1300 cams (rpw stage 2, plus other internals that are needed, ie springs, maybe cam gears)
$.. headwork ( port, polish) can anyone give me an idea on how much i should look at for this

$500 for other stuff here and there. is the sards FPR necessary?

$2500 manual conversion. (this is how much im willing to pay. stuff $4000)

i think the hardest part would be finding somebody to do the manual conversion.
if i stay auto a stall converter is tempting, but then there goes all fuel economy.
would be good if you get switch a stall converter on and off at will.
..but i think thats called a manual. lol

hmm. i dont think these prices would include labor but.
the manifold i can do myself, but i think thats it.

my goal is to do it all at once, so it only needs 1 tune.
also would my unichip handle all this?

lets see as a v. quick estimate
$1000 full exhaust : pacemaker extractors, 2.5inch mandrel bent pipe.( already got straight through muffler). is a hi flow cat necessary?
$900 intake manifold : EZBoys
$1300 cams (rpw stage 2, plus other internals that are needed, ie springs, maybe cam gears)
$.. headwork ( port, polish) can anyone give me an idea on how much i should look at for this

$500 for other stuff here and there. is the sards FPR necessary?

$2500 manual conversion. (this is how much im willing to pay. stuff $4000)



I would expect to spend roughly $1000-1300$ on headwork for what you have in mind. You will need to purchase a spare set of heads for this, unless you don't mind having your car off the road for ages. I happen to be selling said heads in the FS section:P

You will need new headgaskets, I think they are $200-300 from mitsu. Also you will want to raise compression with 10:1 pajeros pistons, these are around $400 I believe. You'll wanto replace some bearings while you are at it, I'd guess $100-150. Also Valve springs and Adjustable cam gears.

To pay a workshop I would budget around $1000 to swap the heads and fit the pistons. You may need an adjustable FPR.

Regarding cams, you can get them from Tighe from a couple hundred less. I'd be looking at a profile somewhere around rpw stage 2-3 specs. Though you can certainly go larger if you are happy to sacrifice some low-rpm performance add increase the budget for some bits and peices.

Do the manual convertion first, massive improvement.

I would expect to spend roughly $1000-1300$ on headwork for what you have in mind. You will need to purchase a spare set of hands for this, unless you don't mind having your car off the road for ages. I happen to be selling said heads in the FS section:P

You will need new headgaskets, I think they are $200-300 from mitsu. Also you will want to raise compression with 10:1 pajeros pistons, these are around $400 I believe. You'll wanto replace some bearings while you are at it, I'd guess $100-150. Also Valve springs and Adjustable cam gears.

To pay a workshop I would budget around $1000 to swap the heads and fit the pistons. You may need an adjustable FPR.

Regarding cams, you can get them from Tighe from a couple hundred less. I'd be looking at a profile somewhere around rpw stage 2-3 specs. Though you can certainly go larger if you are happy to sacrifice some low-rpm performance add increase the budget for some bits and peices.

Do the manual convertion first, massive improvement.

cheers for that.
i dont have the money atm but. so if i do this it wont be for another few months at least.

hey mike. nice to see your giving it a go.

I'm from perth also, and looking at doing what your doing.
might use any left over from my house loan and put it into my car :P.
goal is to spend $6k tops. try and get it to the 160kwatw.

lets see as a v. quick estimate
$1000 full exhaust : pacemaker extractors, 2.5inch mandrel bent pipe.( already got straight through muffler). is a hi flow cat necessary?
$900 intake manifold : EZBoys
$1300 cams (rpw stage 2, plus other internals that are needed, ie springs, maybe cam gears)
$.. headwork ( port, polish) can anyone give me an idea on how much i should look at for this

$500 for other stuff here and there. is the sards FPR necessary?

$2500 manual conversion. (this is how much im willing to pay. stuff $4000)

i think the hardest part would be finding somebody to do the manual conversion.
if i stay auto a stall converter is tempting, but then there goes all fuel economy.
would be good if you get switch a stall converter on and off at will.
..but i think thats called a manual. lol

hmm. i dont think these prices would include labor but.
the manifold i can do myself, but i think thats it.

my goal is to do it all at once, so it only needs 1 tune.
also would my unichip handle all this?


cant believe anyone hasnt said this manual conversion+ 2nd hand blower kit will net 160kw atw on a safe tune easily and might just scrape in under budget.

cant believe anyone hasnt said this manual conversion+ 2nd hand blower kit will net 160kw atw on a safe tune easily and might just scrape in under budget.

But 160kw atw is quite easy with an Na tune aswell, its been done in RPW stage 1 cams, with headwork, throttle bodles (apparently not much improvment as this power level) and a tune. Still running stock compression.

But 160kw atw is quite easy with an Na tune aswell, its been done in RPW stage 1 cams, with headwork, throttle bodles (apparently not much improvment as this power level) and a tune. Still running stock compression.


really. so with what ive just listed, i should be hoping for the 200kw atw mark??

i know i could go forced induction, but that just ruins the fun of it all. im more interested in NA. i dont know why. its just what ive decided to go for.

Not apples to apples as a force fed engine will have 100%+ VE and a much fatter torque curve making it a faster car and easier to car to drive at most speeds. Wheres a NA motor with the same kw peak might be a complete dog to drive at low speeds and only enjoyable above certain rpm.

That said not everyone needs a dyno or quarter mile crusher. I don't and will be happy with a solid NA build - not to forget about the cheaper insurance premium!! :cool:

You're right; there's a certain satisfaction about making power the 'old' way, using some science, engineering and efficiency rather than a bolt on 'blow in air, add fuel'.

really. so with what ive just listed, i should be hoping for the 200kw atw mark??

i know i could go forced induction, but that just ruins the fun of it all. im more interested in NA. i dont know why. its just what ive decided to go for.

not through an auto 'box. on the standard tune my blower could only muster 159.7kw atw through the auto. the Sprintex tune is supposedly good for 225kw at the flywheel, so I lost about 65kw (or about 29%) of that through the auto 'box.

others have seen 30+% loss through the auto 'box.

if you go for the manual transplant, look for about 20 - 25% loss as opposed to about 30% for the auto. so to get 200kw atw you'd have to crank out 250+kw (manual) or 285+kw (auto) at the flywheel. them's big numbers.

cheers,
.wook

just on the insurance side of things i was qouted an extra $26 per year with justcar if i supercharged mine

just on the insurance side of things i was qouted an extra $26 per year with justcar if i supercharged mine

mine stayed the same... only diff was no one under 25 could drive it.

But 160kw atw is quite easy with an Na tune aswell, its been done in RPW stage 1 cams, with headwork, throttle bodles (apparently not much improvment as this power level) and a tune. Still running stock compression.

but this was in a manual...not auto


not through an auto 'box. on the standard tune my blower could only muster 159.7kw atw through the auto. the Sprintex tune is supposedly good for 225kw at the flywheel, so I lost about 65kw (or about 29%) of that through the auto 'box.

others have seen 30+% loss through the auto 'box.

if you go for the manual transplant, look for about 20 - 25% loss as opposed to about 30% for the auto. so to get 200kw atw you'd have to crank out 250+kw (manual) or 285+kw (auto) at the flywheel. them's big numbers.

cheers,
.wook

I totally agree with that autos are power suckers....I first had a dyno before all my mods and got 116kwatw which is about a 29% loss in drivtrail over a 163kw at the fly stock. which means now i have around 196kw at the fly

really. so with what ive just listed, i should be hoping for the 200kw atw mark??

i know i could go forced induction, but that just ruins the fun of it all. im more interested in NA. i dont know why. its just what ive decided to go for.

Ye. The above was a manual. Should of made that clear. However, to keep things good for the NA side of things, there have been guys with a dyno figure of 207 fwkw, and Jasons Vrx with 240fwkw. Both cars run "wild" cams, but, are streetable with a manual. With an auto, I doubt such agressive cams would be nice to drive.

One more for the Na built. Jasons VRx got an almost flat 14second pass with "only" 170fwkw, Na tune.

Seems these engines are quite easy to make power out of when you know what your doing.

One more for the Na built. Jasons VRx got an almost flat 14second pass with "only" 170fwkw, Na tune.



There was plenty more in it, judging from his trap speed of 170km/hr. I think that build had potential to do a low-mid 13 second 1/4.

A genuine 170fwkw moves our magnas pretty quickly, due to good gearing and weighing much less than late-model commodores/falcons.

I feel I'm kind of "selling out" by going FI :P

Would definantely love to see some more nice NA builds :)

There was plenty more in it, judging from his trap speed of 170km/hr. I think that build had potential to do a low-mid 13 second 1/4.

A genuine 170fwkw moves our magnas pretty quickly, due to good gearing and weighing much less than late-model commodores/falcons.



It seems to be out 60foot times that let us down the most. Dam FWD



Would definantely love to see some more nice NA builds :)

Same, the more the better. Pfftt to FI [no offense ofcourse]

Ye. The above was a manual. Should of made that clear. However, to keep things good for the NA side of things, there have been guys with a dyno figure of 207 fwkw, and Jasons Vrx with 240fwkw. Both cars run "wild" cams, but, are streetable with a manual. With an auto, I doubt such agressive cams would be nice to drive.

One more for the Na built. Jasons VRx got an almost flat 14second pass with "only" 170fwkw, Na tune.

Seems these engines are quite easy to make power out of when you know what your doing.
um i think u will find that jasons car is a ralliart not a vrx thankyou and im pretty sure he has not changed the stock ralliart cams but he has got bigger pistons etc etc cheers

um i think u will find that jasons car is a ralliart not a vrx thankyou and im pretty sure he has not changed the stock ralliart cams but he has got bigger pistons etc etc cheers

wrong jason, dude. he's talking about the user Jasons VRX (http://www.aussiemagna.com/forums/member.php?u=2473).. but it's still not a VR-X.. it's a TH with a VR-X bodykit lol

wrong jason, dude. he's talking about the user Jasons VRX (http://www.aussiemagna.com/forums/member.php?u=2473).. but it's still not a VR-X.. it's a TH with a VR-X bodykit lol

And a tunable factory ECU :shock: :cry:

wrong jason, dude. he's talking about the user Jasons VRX (http://www.aussiemagna.com/forums/member.php?u=2473).. but it's still not a VR-X.. it's a TH with a VR-X bodykit lol

Get it right Brendan its a TH Sports with a VRX bodykit and VRX interior lol lol

Get it right Brendan its a TH Sports with a VRX bodykit and VRX interior lol lol

and a powerful one too:badgrin:

um i think u will find that jasons car is a ralliart not a vrx thankyou and im pretty sure he has not changed the stock ralliart cams but he has got bigger pistons etc etc cheers

Bigger pistons eh?:P

Bigger pistons eh?:P

Yep. 11:1 Customs. Bigger compression anyway.

hey peeps, just an update, i picked up the cams this arvo, and the valve springs, got 262 degree diration cams, im very happy. Gotta speek to mechanic as Dave says i need the cam gear, some of you are saying i dont, so i think ill speek to the person installing them lol. for evedence ill post pics as soon as possible (next few days). as a side not got my door trims done in red suede lol. cant wait till cams are installed should sound mint, and go hard.

mike

hey peeps, just an update, i picked up the cams this arvo, and the valve springs, got 262 degree diration cams, im very happy. Gotta speek to mechanic as Dave says i need the cam gear, some of you are saying i dont, so i think ill speek to the person installing them lol. for evedence ill post pics as soon as possible (next few days). as a side not got my door trims done in red suede lol. cant wait till cams are installed should sound mint, and go hard.

mike

I havnt used adjustable cam gears on any the magna V6 engines (with custom ground cams) that ive built.

If the cams are ground at the pin correctly, then adjustable cam gears wont be needed on our SOHC engines BUT if we had a DOHC heads on our engines then adjustable cam gears would be of some use (as you could then degree the inlet and exhaust cams independantly of each other).

I know dave will say ya need them to "zero" the cams correctly but as ive stated if the cams are made correctly then they wont be needed. At the end of the day its up to you if ya wanna spend the money on them but id rather put the money towards something more useful. :)

I agree with Jason. But I think it's fair to say that anyone who's bought cams from RPW has found the best shaped torque curve has come with about 6-7 degrees of cam retard. This suggests that you might need adjustable gears but only because of the reasons Jasons mentions, not because they're somehow essential to this type of modification.

hey peeps, just an update, i picked up the cams this arvo, and the valve springs, got 262 degree diration cams, im very happy. Gotta speek to mechanic as Dave says i need the cam gear, some of you are saying i dont, so i think ill speek to the person installing them lol. for evedence ill post pics as soon as possible (next few days). as a side not got my door trims done in red suede lol. cant wait till cams are installed should sound mint, and go hard.

mike

What other work you doing to the engine ? Higher compression I hope with that type of cam, otherwise low down power will be greatly lost.

How about your rods, are you leaving them stock standard, or are you fitting ARP bolts, shotpeening them, or balancing them ? I know the cam isnt to wild, but still, just trying to follow your NA build.

Its great to see another NA build happening, mine is slowly coming along. I pick my heads up today, and ill go from there

What other work you doing to the engine ? Higher compression I hope with that type of cam, otherwise low down power will be greatly lost.

How about your rods, are you leaving them stock standard, or are you fitting ARP bolts, shotpeening them, or balancing them ? I know the cam isnt to wild, but still, just trying to follow your NA build.

Its great to see another NA build happening, mine is slowly coming along. I pick my heads up today, and ill go from there

My new engine should be in my car by April hopefully (the engine has been long time in the doing, as ive only been doing it in my sparetime).
Its been run on the engine dyno and is now only awaiting a few minor "tweaks" and then i'll put it in the car and tune the ECU and whack a few Kms on it then hit the track and rolling road dyno. :P

Be nice to drive the POS magna again after its been off the road 12months.

i'll put it in the car and tune the ECU and whack a few Kms on it then hit the track and rolling road dyno. :P



No, dont do that. I wanted to have the quickest NA magna around. If you start hitting the track, ill have some competition, hahaha :P

No, dont do that. I wanted to have the quickest NA magna around. If you start hitting the track, ill have some competition, hahaha :P

lol thats the main reason for this build up, is to use the car more for track work like i use to a couple of years ago.

Well the cams i got, Dave got from Tighe cams as it was still in there box. For the future im definitly getting an intake plenum to help with the low down power, and looking and uping the compression, as a few people has mentioned, then this is probably be where i will stop, but i have said i will stop many times lol. ill keep you updated of my progress.


mike

Sorry if this has been mentioned, but are you planning on converting to manual at any time?

This is what i was going to do at the end of the year, at the moment though i can not find anyone in WA that can do the job for a reasonable price. Plus it will be interesting to see how far i can push the auto box and how much power i can get out of it. Might even get most powerful NA Auto (doubt it though).

mike

Might even get most powerful NA Auto (doubt it though).

mike

wouldnt be overly hard anyone who has done serious engine work either has a manual or has converted to a manual. i think one has 139kw atw with cams, rpw intake piggyback and zorst

Is there a consensus on what are the highest automatic. ATW kWs yet?.

yeah magtone has made 137kw atw according to his manifold thread.

what about the guy with the 6 speed auto, i dont know what figures he is pulling but he has cams and head work????

mike

what about the guy with the 6 speed auto, i dont know what figures he is pulling but he has cams and head work????

mike

got no idea i tried searching for it and i didnt see any figures just that he put an audi box into his awd

what about the guy with the 6 speed auto, i dont know what figures he is pulling but he has cams and head work????

mike

you mean skaboy12???

It says on MCA, 247bhp at the wheels

[URL="http://www.mitsubishiclubaustralia.com/forums/garage.php?mode=view_vehicle&CID=5"]

you mean skaboy12???

It says on MCA, 247bhp at the wheels

[URL="http://www.mitsubishiclubaustralia.com/forums/garage.php?mode=view_vehicle&CID=5"]

what kinda crazy **** is that??????:nuts: says he paid $1400 for kings superlow... mind you i am interested to know where the 6 spd for an AWD came from

what kinda crazy **** is that??????:nuts: says he paid $1400 for kings superlow... mind you i am interested to know where the 6 spd for an AWD came from

its out of an audi and id say he got custom kings made up with a specific height and rate for it to be that sort of money

its out of an audi and id say he got custom kings made up with a specific height and rate for it to be that sort of money

Well the springs in my magna are custom made to my specs and they cost just on $100 per spring...
If ya notice he also says that he payed $2800 for a pair of cams..... they must be gold plated :bowrofl: for that price as the custom made cams ive had made for V6 magna engines are around $900 for a pair.

its out of an audi and id say he got custom kings made up with a specific height and rate for it to be that sort of money

Bollucks, I have custom rate/height springs on order from Kings, paying around $500 for the set.

so he is doing about 185kw atw.

i got this by timing this by 1.33 which makes 246 HP i kno this isnt accurate but it gives me an idea of what i must aim for. this could take me a while lol. damn camera is flat i got it on charge now.

mike

dont forget different dynos, so just get near enuff ;)

well the car is going in on the 16th, and is getting tuned on the 21st for anyone that is following my progress. that means hopefully on the 24th of this month, i can go on the thursday cruise, with the cams installed. :)

mike

so he is doing about 185kw atw.

i got this by timing this by 1.33 which makes 246 HP i kno this isnt accurate but it gives me an idea of what i must aim for. this could take me a while lol. damn camera is flat i got it on charge now.

mike

It would be interesting to know how he got BHP at the wheels. AFAIK BHP is measured only at the engine without acessories such as alternators, air cond pulleys etc. maybe its at the hubs? With all the suspect costs on the car it is hard to know what is real and what isn't. Don't stess tho, I will put you in my category of hp with stock auto!! BTW will yours be tuned on a hub dyno?

I wouldn't spend too much time chasing that power atw figure. depending on what sort of Audi auto 'box he has, it could be that he's losing far less than the ~30% drive train loss that the INVECS II 'box loses.

through that 'box, I would say that andrewd has had the biggest numbers (but that wasn't NA, if that matters and it was the AWD 5sp, not the 4sp). it was something like 185kw (and then de-tuned to ~175kw). I haven't seen anything else better than the 168.8kw mine pulled (again, not NA, if that matters).

cheers,
.wook

i thought they got BHP by doing a power run, then letting the engine run itself back down instead of using the brakes (they run it up, then just lift off the throttle and let it run back down to idle). this measures the engine braking, etc.

but i could be way off.

Mine is and will be done on a hub dyno. hub figures are acurate the rest are approximations just to give an idea.

mike

well the car is going in on the 16th, and is getting tuned on the 21st for anyone that is following my progress. that means hopefully on the 24th of this month, i can go on the thursday cruise, with the cams installed. :)

mike

that would be awesome if you have them running by thursday the 24th
i'll be coming up that night cause i dont have to work friday :D

Mine is and will be done on a hub dyno. hub figures are acurate the rest are approximations just to give an idea.

mike

i think they are all acurate on the day, just with hub dynos you are able to fine tune better as the results show change with small adjustments which a roller dyno may not pick up. Less loss at the hubs mean higher horsepower readings.

hmm. i wonder if my tune was done on a roller dyno then. coz it was crap.
and my readout is 20hp lower then stock..

i thought they got BHP by doing a power run, then letting the engine run itself back down instead of using the brakes (they run it up, then just lift off the throttle and let it run back down to idle). this measures the engine braking, etc.

but i could be way off.

Way off :) Compression braking has nothing to do with hp/kw at the wheels or fly.

Though I have read about some sort of cutting-edge dyno in Europe that supposedly can calculate drivetrain loss in some way from measureing data on lift off.

hmm. i wonder if my tune was done on a roller dyno then. coz it was crap.
and my readout is 20hp lower then stock..

When you say "20hp lower than stock" are you comparing your dyno printout to the advertised output of your car from Mitsubishi (155kW for a TJII for example)?? Because that's normal, and unless you pull you engine out and put it on a bench dyno you'll never get a reading close to the manufactures claimed output, because thats how they dyno their engines.

Difference between a hub dyno and roller dyno won't be worth spending the extra cash just to see a 1-2hp difference.

When you say "20hp lower than stock" are you comparing your dyno printout to the advertised output of your car from Mitsubishi (155kW for a TJII for example)?? Because that's normal, and unless you pull you engine out and put it on a bench dyno you'll never get a reading close to the manufactures claimed output, because thats how they dyno their engines.

Difference between a hub dyno and roller dyno won't be worth spending the extra cash just to see a 1-2hp difference.

I reckon there is more in it than 1-2 horsepower. Look at Lenda's current mods. He has a few mods (namely cams and plenum) less than I and only has 3kw less. I picked up around 17kw with these mods alone.

Anyway, Lenda, have you thought about how much you are retarding your cams when fitted? or are you advancing while the auto is still in?

Well i am really pissed of at the moment, due to the fact i got a phone call saying that the heads need to be machined for the valve springs and cams = $800 - $1100 depending on how much needs doing. now i have had to call up and cancel my booking, as i havent budgeted for this expense. i thought these cams were a straight swap. i gotta go to work now, but when i pick my car up this arvo, im going to say a few words of wisdom. thus i am also going to make a few phone calls finding out what EXACTLY needs to be done to install these sized cams and the valve springs. :rant: :rant: :rant:

well im sorry about the delay guys... give me an extra month or so, more so than anything to get the extra cash up. :rant: :rant:

I WAS QUOTED $1200 for god sake, but no... we had to change it to 2G plus...


mike

wow that sux, sorry to hear dude.

Well i am really pissed of at the moment, due to the fact i got a phone call saying that the heads need to be machined for the valve springs and cams = $800 - $1100 depending on how much needs doing. now i have had to call up and cancel my booking, as i havent budgeted for this expense. i thought these cams were a straight swap. i gotta go to work now, but when i pick my car up this arvo, im going to say a few words of wisdom. thus i am also going to make a few phone calls finding out what EXACTLY needs to be done to install these sized cams and the valve springs. :rant: :rant: :rant:

well im sorry about the delay guys... give me an extra month or so, more so than anything to get the extra cash up. :rant: :rant:

I WAS QUOTED $1200 for god sake, but no... we had to change it to 2G plus...


mike

Mate, when it comes to modding cars, always have some reserve budget for unforseen costs/problems, as in many cases you will need it (even if most of the time it's only slightly over).

Sorry to hear about your scenario, but unfortunantely it's not an uncommon one.

I know I've already said this, but you really should just go with "Stage1' or similar cams. pulling off the heads to fit "Stage2" cams and valvesprings is just pissing away money, as you are not supporting them with higher CR and headwork. In fact the end result may well be worse than if you had just gone with stage1s..minimal top-end gain for a larger loss of low-rpm power.

For your sake please swap them for "stage1" cams if at all possible...I don't understand why you have decided to go against the good advice you have been given here.

what was the reason for your heads to be machined? have they pulled them off yet? If they're off might as well get a quote from a machinist.

Also the cams are pretty mild imo.

its not the fact i didnt kno, ts because they didnt even look at the car. well they moved it to the garage half and hour before close, so i had to wait for that. anyways rang a few places, they suggest that the heads should be skimmed or machined anyway whilst there of, i said ok how much - average price i rekon was about $300 for the heads to be skimmed :D . i said ok went into the mechanic, asked why it needs to be machined, says it should be done anyways and since they are after market cams and a quite "large" it should be done to fit the cams and valve springs as well. i said how much approximately $800-$1200 :rant:

$1000 for labour
$200 for gasket kit
$800-1200 for the heads.

im sorry but that is a bit over board and way over my reserve. i was willing to pay $1500.

Tomorrow im going to ring a few mechanics, and go see a few, show the cams to them lol and ask for a quote, ask if that includes the heads, if it does and they say it cost more than $300 im going to tell them to do the work but send the heads of to the place in wanneroo.

anyways ill keep you all updated.

im not ignoring your advice :P , i kno its very useful information, but i wanted to see how far i could go with cams in an auto magna as noone that i kno of has gone stage 2 in there auto. then get a manual conversion later. i dont really want to up the compression, if i go that root im just going to get a short engine and do it that way.

mike

im not ignoring your advice :P , i kno its very useful information, but i wanted to see how far i could go with cams in an auto magna as noone that i kno of has gone stage 2 in there auto. then get a manual conversion later. i dont really want to up the compression, if i go that root im just going to get a short engine and do it that way.

mike

Fair enough Mike :) I will be interested to see your results, as I havn't seen anyone else try "Stage2" or similar profile with stock heads and CR. You never till you try I suppose, the result may be relatively good - and if it isn't then you've been warned :P

yeh i suppose you cant say i told you so lol

its not the fact i didnt kno, ts because they didnt even look at the car. well they moved it to the garage half and hour before close, so i had to wait for that. anyways rang a few places, they suggest that the heads should be skimmed or machined anyway whilst there of, i said ok how much - average price i rekon was about $300 for the heads to be skimmed :D . i said ok went into the mechanic, asked why it needs to be machined, says it should be done anyways and since they are after market cams and a quite "large" it should be done to fit the cams and valve springs as well. i said how much approximately $800-$1200 :rant:

$1000 for labour
$200 for gasket kit
$800-1200 for the heads.

im sorry but that is a bit over board and way over my reserve. i was willing to pay $1500.

Tomorrow im going to ring a few mechanics, and go see a few, show the cams to them lol and ask for a quote, ask if that includes the heads, if it does and they say it cost more than $300 im going to tell them to do the work but send the heads of to the place in wanneroo.

anyways ill keep you all updated.

im not ignoring your advice :P , i kno its very useful information, but i wanted to see how far i could go with cams in an auto magna as noone that i kno of has gone stage 2 in there auto. then get a manual conversion later. i dont really want to up the compression, if i go that root im just going to get a short engine and do it that way.

mike

Mate, I mean no offence by this, but there's no point doing certain things unless you support them with other modifications. For example, cams - as Chisholm has said, support the cams with headwork. If you don't want to port the heads, then getting bigger cams is just wasting money.

WRT to the machining, getting alloy heads skimmed is always good insurance against head gasket problems, plus you get a slight increase in compression. Why do the heads need to be machined to accept new springs and cams?

The gaskets themselves aren't cheap, and you'll also need 16 new head bolts - at $12.50 each.

Another thing, if you get cams ground to suit an automatic trans based engine, and then swap to a manual trans, you may get a nasty shock when the power delivery is drastically different.

I'm sorry to say this, but there's no way you'll get away from this cheaply.

lenda you should graham bells book on performance four strokes, im reading it atm and has changed my way of thinking of bigger= better.

im not ignoring your advice :P , i kno its very useful information, but i wanted to see how far i could go with cams in an auto magna as noone that i kno of has gone stage 2 in there auto. then get a manual conversion later. i dont really want to up the compression, if i go that root im just going to get a short engine and do it that way.

mike

Mike,

Can I suggest you ring Chip Torque in Nerang, QLD.

sales@chiptorque.com.au
07 5596 4204

When I had my Exede fitted we talked about a Magna that had been fitted with Stage 2 cams, stock, and that they had dynoed. It ended up running like s**t (rough running , wouldn't idle smoothly) and it ended up with less power than previously dynoed. The cams were returned to RPW eventually. I think this is why RPW discourages Stage2 cams without the necessary supporting headwork.

At least get some backgound from them as they tried to make the setup work.

Ok. I have spoken to a few performance shops around in perth, that have been mentioned in this thread and some others, most of them said that nothing needs to be machined to put these cams in. the only reason the heads need to be touched is because of the installation of the valve springs. :rant: Anyways i also rang a few head places, and the most nicest people and helpful were the ones in wanneroo, they quoted 300 to skim the heads for me if needed, they told me to just have a look at them when they take them of. iv also spoken to dave and he has ensured me that these cams will work in my car, without any problems, just a little lumpy in idle and thats it. :cool: excluding previous problems that i have had with dave, which were minor but caused problems for me badly, he has been very nice, patient, and helpful for me lately, and has quoted me 1200 to install everything and 200-400 to tune, and if the heads need doing, 300 as previously stated. end result being aroung 1500 if the heads dont need doing. s*** loads better than the other place, which bummped it up to 2000 + after they quoted me 1200, then i had to get it tuned :rant:. My advice dont go to normal mechanics or dealerships to get performance parts installed, this may not happen in all cases but in mine it did and almost cost me alot of money, but i was strong and said no... may i say this was quite hard to do as i really was eager to get the cams. my later plans include a manual conversion, which is most probably next, then maybe some nice set of pistons, depending on how i go. some will tell me not to do it this way or not to do it in stages, but i am interested in to see what each mod does to the car, and what needs to be done to achieve certain things, as well as learning some valuable lessons of what not to do. :D

car is now booked in for the 23rd of June :)

hopefully ready for autosalon if that is still going ahead.

thanks all for your tips and help. no that have not been ignored, they have been taken into serious consideration.

Edit: forgot to add, combustion chamber in the heads, are going to be ported to add extra air flow through the valves thats an extra 400 odd bucks as well.

mike

umm quick question if anyone knows, one of my friends has just told me that if i put the cams in and do the heads, it will make it dangerous for drag racing, resulting in a blown engine, because the bottom half of the engine hasnt been modified - is this a load of crap or true? i know there is always that risk, but generally what do you think? and the other thing is people with manuals, quick shifter, short shifter, and heavy duty clutches are they worth it, since i be doing a few races not often, once a month or so whilst track is open?

mike

umm quick question if anyone knows, one of my friends has just told me that if i put the cams in and do the heads, it will make it dangerous for drag racing, resulting in a blown engine, because the bottom half of the engine hasnt been modified - is this a load of crap or true? i know there is always that risk, but generally what do you think? and the other thing is people with manuals, quick shifter, short shifter, and heavy duty clutches are they worth it, since i be doing a few races not often, once a month or so whilst track is open?

mike

I can't see that happening. The 3.5's rods are good for 450kW, and the block has 4 bolt main caps, so it's inherently strong. I'm not so sure about pistons though, but I can't ever remember anyone binning a set running naturally aspirated. If you've still got the stock rev limiter/fuel cutout in place, there's no way the engine will rev high enough to blow up.

I can't see that happening. The 3.5's rods are good for 450kW, and the block has 4 bolt main caps, so it's inherently strong. I'm not so sure about pistons though, but I can't ever remember anyone binning a set running naturally aspirated. If you've still got the stock rev limiter/fuel cutout in place, there's no way the engine will rev high enough to blow up.

thankyou very much for your quick reply and very useful information.hopefully not just for me but for anyone reading this thread. need more of you lol only joking.

mike

umm quick question if anyone knows, one of my friends has just told me that if i put the cams in and do the heads, it will make it dangerous for drag racing, resulting in a blown engine, because the bottom half of the engine hasnt been modified - is this a load of crap or true? i know there is always that risk, but generally what do you think? and the other thing is people with manuals, quick shifter, short shifter, and heavy duty clutches are they worth it, since i be doing a few races not often, once a month or so whilst track is open?

mike

Yes if you put in "big" cams and rev way above what the motor is designed to cope with, you'd proably find the first thing to let go would be the rod bolts. Apparently the stock rods if fitted with ARP rodbolts and shotpeened can cope with 500hp reliably.

But the cams you're using aren't going to cause this to happen, as really you are only extending the powerband a few hundred rpm. Even Cthulhu had no problems with his 207wkw build, with peak power @6400rpm from memory, so probably revving to a few hundred rpm above that when thrashing it.

Though with that sort of build I would be looking at rod bolts and shotpeening as a precaution, always better to have peace of mind.

With your sort of profile I'd hazard a guess you'd be making peak power around 5500-5700rpm, so you probably wouldn't rev much over 6,000 rpm when fanging it (well you could, but there would be no point).

Yes if you put in "big" cams and rev way above what the motor is designed to cope with, you'd proably find the first thing to let go would be the rod bolts. Apparently the stock rods if fitted with ARP rodbolts and shotpeened can cope with 500hp reliably.

But the cams you're using aren't going to cause this to happen, as really you are only extending the powerband a few hundred rpm. Even Cthulhu had no problems with his 207wkw build, with peak power @6400rpm from memory, so probably revving to a few hundred rpm above that when thrashing it.

Though with that sort of build I would be looking at rod bolts and shotpeening as a precaution, always better to have peace of mind.

With your sort of profile I'd hazard a guess you'd be making peak power around 5500-5700rpm, so you probably wouldn't rev much over 6,000 rpm when fanging it (well you could, but there would be no point).

thanks for that, puts things in perspective. looks like it will be ok :D

i most definitly wont be going over 6000 rpm :)

thanks mike

thanks for that, puts things in perspective. looks like it will be ok :D

i most definitly wont be going over 6000 rpm :)

thanks mike

Did Dave give you any indication on where he will set the cam gears at? I imagine it will need to be redone when you get a manual conversion. Just as indication I currently have mine at only 2 degrees retarded, and am thinking of advancing a couple of degrees instead to get the POS moving quicker.

lol ill ask him when he is on next!!! let you kno the minute i kno

mike

well got some bad news, Dave is fully booked out with a worked proton which will take a week and a supercharged magna which will take a few days pushing my car back, there the date is unknown for the cams, i will keep you all updated. And the question ragardiong the retarding of cams, well he said he will start at zero and go from there, not helpful i know, although i suppose it is hard to tell without doing the job, anyways ill let you know what it is, when it is done lol

mike

so you booke your car in for some work to be done on a specific date, and Dave has double booked,a nd pushed your job back?:nuts:

well he didnt double book, he hasnt finished other cars which have been sitting there since christmas :shock: so im not to happy but there is nothing i can do about it. its either that or let it sit in his workshop for a week before he looks at it. im in uni holidays now, so i want it done ASAP, and other places are booked out as i gave a few a ring today to see if i could get in :( anyways s*** happens

mike

sorry to hear mate. you must be chomping at the bit too. looking forward to the results

looking forward to seeing these results Lenda keep me posted on any updates

Cheers Brad

so you booke your car in for some work to be done on a specific date, and Dave has double booked,a nd pushed your job back?:nuts:

no double booking here. my car has been in the rpw workshop for the major part of the last 4 months.

I'm hoping to have it back before 2009.

no double booking here. my car has been in the rpw workshop for the major part of the last 4 months.

I'm hoping to have it back before 2009.

lol so your the supercharged magna lol :cool:

i think its just crazy how the car can be sitting there for so long and not be finished. anyways im over my ranting, hopefully i get a phone call next week sometime :) I hope you feel special that your car and a proton are getting special treatment, then again so am i after you guys are out of there hehe. hope he doesnt get the proton parts mixed with your parts lol